Since the fish have been hitting so voraciously lately, I decided to do a little experimentation. I like to use light action 3wts for sunfish (mostly a little bamboo, but I have moderate graphite–only longer). Anyway, in bank fishing, I always need to watch my backcast, and heavy flies on a light line/rod make precise backcasts problematic. The problem is, small flies (14 and under) generally get swallowed deeply and are difficult to unhook. I tied a few simple wets, like peacock herl soft hackle, orange or yellow silk floss soft hackle, and dries like foam ants and wasps, on size 10 hooks with dressings in the 16-14 range to see what happened. The results were interesting. While not as graceful as a small dry, these “big hook” variations were considerable easier to cast than the full size water-logged chenille-bodied flies I normally use this time of year. The fish didn’t seem to care that the dressings and hooks were mismatched. The only real difference I noticed (I verified this sight fishing in shallow water near shore) was that the little ones would try to take the seemingly smaller flies, but were unable to easily handle the larger hooks, so I had a lot of misses from youngsters, which attracted larger ones nearby, for some reason–likely predatory competiveness. I would think that this would also work in open water with something like size 12 dressings on size 8 hooks, and I’m interested in trying the concept when the fish get pickier later in the summer. Anyone else ever try this?
cross creek - I started using a 2wt rod for a lot of my panfishing last year [received the rod as Xmas present in 2004] and found that a lot of my “standard” #12 ties were problemic to cast with the smaller rod when the body materials had soaked up water [along with the weighting I was using]. I retied many of my patterns on a #14 shorter ‘X’ hook shank - less material; less weight. Worked like a charm. I also started carrying and using a ‘disgouger’. With it I can reach into the BG’s mouth and extract the fly without damage to the fish. Since I release almost all my fish this was important to me. If you can’t find a disgouger you can easily make one from the small 4" or 5" screwdrivers that engr types like to carry in those ‘pocket protectors’.
I’ve also tied patterns on the very back of a longer shank hook. This will give you a #16 or #18 ‘pattern’ on a 12 or 14 hook. If the long bare hook shank bothers you just tie in and wrap a layer of floss - bluegill seem fond of yellow. The longer hook shank gives you considerable leverage for hook removal.
Also you might try ‘barbless’ hooks. These remove much easier than standard barbed hooks.
donald
I think that part of the problems is that most patterns are over dressed with materials. Try the size 10 or 12 pattern with about 1/2 to 2/3 the amount of materials you normally use.
Rick
Thanks for the comments. All my hooks are barbless (bent down when not available as barbless), and I’ve used the same mosquito forceps for over 20 years (easier to manipulate fly with, hold fish, and cradle rod at the same time than any disgorger I’ve ever tried, plus I use them for various tasks while tying, so they feel at home in my hand). I think you’re right about over-dressed flies, although wet chenille is likely to feel like a water-logged towel, no matter how little there is on the hook, but many other style flies would benefit from sparser dressings–hence my interest lately in silk floss soft hackles–very hard to overdress and they come alive in the water. I’ve thought about tying on extra-long shank hooks, and will likely try that next–no problem with bare shanks for me, and it would be nice to be able to unhook without a tool. I’ve been on the lookout for some small circle hooks to see if they would work as well (lip-hooking) on sunfish as they do on larger species.
Hey Cross Creek,
I have had a similar experience with the flies that I tie. My initial problem was that I needed a fly that would sink to the depth that the BG’s were at during the begining of the spawn, but they didn’t like the beadhead flies that dropped like a rock. So to solve this I added a size to my hook from #12 to #10 for some wet flies. The increase in size gave me the wieght and presentation I was looking for. The flies are also sparsly tied so they sink faster. I like tinsel for the body, peacock hearl for the collar, and a type of soft feather I found at a craft store for the hackle(not sure what tpye of feather it is, but comes in big bags). The fly sinks right off when it hits the water, but does so more slowly that wieghted flies. An added bonus is that the larger hook size keeps away the tiny guys. this combination has given me some vicious strikes. Lately I have been tying the some fly with a short tail, and been getting super results. Yesterday I was out fishing and took eight nice gills with it.
sarge.
The enemy was many and they were but few,
But they stormed the gates of hell with glory in their eyes,
For tonight they sleep in Valhalla.
I like a slooow sinking fly for 'gills, since the big ones seem to want to follow the fly down and think it over a bit, so I tend to use materials with absorbancy and not use weight (beyond a little copper wire for segmentation). My favorite tailing materials (so short it’s really more of a butt than a tail) are Crystal Hair (a few fibers doubled over and cut 1/8th to 3/16ths long), and holographic Flashabou, which I usually apply wrapped around the hook like tinsel for two or three turns (I’ve been using one hank of the stuff for years). I tend to use grizzly saddle hackle for the soft hackle, because the fibers have just a bit of springiness and are barred. Both Crystal Hair and Flashabou give off a lot of sparkle with very little fly motion. I don’t know if the fish even care, but it makes me feel like I have some input. I could probably comb out some of my dog’s fur, wrap it crudely around a hook with some pieces sticking out, and get similar results!
Lacking the opportunity to get to my local shop for some small x-long hooks, I went digging through my stuff after dinner and came up with a few Aberdeens, size 12-14, probably the latter. They needed sharpening and debarbing, and the wire is so flexible that it’s hard to tie on, but I forged ahead with a trial pattern. Using about half the shank, I did up a little yellow soft hackle: Flashabou butt (wound as tinsel), yellow Pearsall’s floss (with no ribbing), peacock herl collar, grizzly saddle hackle. I’m going to try to get on the water tomorrow for a little test. It probably doesn’t matter to the fish, but I bent the front of the shaft up a little in a swimming shape. Makes me feel better about using an old cricket hook, anyway.
CrossCreek:
I tied some Ray Charles patterns on the back half of a Mustad 3665A #14 Limerick. This gills didn’t seem to mind that the front half of the hook was bare metal. It was easier to get the hook out of the fish.
Tim Anderson
heh, heh. I’ve been known to use a few aberdeen hooks meself!! Once you get used to the “springeness” [real word??] they’re not half bad. Here is the pattern I use:
body: olive small chenille.
hackle: brown DRY FLY.
weight: 8-10 wraps of .015 lead.
Start the lead, body, and hackle half-way down the hook bend. Wind each item just to the hook point and tie off. Either leave the hook shank bare or put on a single layer of yellow floss.
Alternate: black, griz hackle, red floss [or bare].
#12 or #14, 2 or 3XL hooks.
The olive pattern is a TJ Dredger; the black is a JT Dredger. The pattern was developed for BIG redears down to 10-12’. I suspect peacock herl would work, too.
donald 
love the light flex hooks (aberdeen style) , use them all the time. no prob with holding power either
Great thread guys!
We have a small fly on thr rear end of a long shank hook. Then we cover the rest of the shank with floss. This is beginning to look like a “Lolly Pop” which guys work with spinning gear for trout. Lolly Pops are built by covering the shank of the hook with a piece of a small plastic worm and dressing the hook bend with a round powerbait egg.
Your Lolly Pop flies sound better. But let’s not tell the trout guys.
Bear
I got a chance to test the new long-shank fly this morning. My results weren’t overwhelming, but I strongly suspect that was because of weather conditions and moon phase. I caught several bluegill, and all were hooked in or near the lip (no “gullet” flies, or hooks caught in the occipital bone, etc). I could have left my forceps at home. The lightly dressed fly was easy to cast, sank readily with no wire or weight of any kind, and picked up without the ounce of lake water I’ve become accustomed to. The wind was blowing hard almost in my face, only with the added joy of crossing diagonally from right to left, so there was plenty of opportunity for botched casts. While accuracy under these conditions wasn’t “teacup,” it was acceptable, and the light fly didn’t plane or cause any other problems. I was fishing a 7ft, 3wt bamboo, not exactly everyones first choice for a windy day on stillwater, so the handling characteristics of the fly were really put to the test. I’ll definitely be tying variations and doing more “field research.”
Sounds like I’ll have to try a few w/o weight!! What shall we call them? Can’t call them “Dredgers” anymore. 
donald
This evening I picked up some TMC 400T (swimming nymph) hooks, size 12, and some yellow and green sparkle yarn. They also had some starling skins in, so I snagged one. I tied up a version of the “partridge and yellow” that I used today, only on a better hook–it’s longer than standard, but a bit shorter than an Aberdeen, and prebent–still a good bit of bare shank exposed. I used the sparkle yarn to give the fly just a bit more body than the silk floss provided. Time to go back to the lake for field testing.
The wide bend hooks from eagle claw are the best. I have them in size 8-10 and tie foam beatles with hackle legs and they work great. I crimp the barb and the fish are 98% hooked in the upper or lower jaw. The very few that are on the tounge are easy to take out. I have had a zero mortality rate with the wide bend. I’m going with 12-14 next
Enjoy and try it
The geezer
[url=http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0039249112901a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=40&Ntt=eagle+claw+hooks&noImage=0&Ntk=%20Produ:6d6d1]http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0039249112901a&type=product&cmCat=search&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&No=40&Ntt=eagle+claw+hooks&noImage=0&Ntk =Produ[/url:6d6d1] cts&QueryText=eagle+claw+hooks&Ntx=matchall&N=4887&Nty=1
Excuse my spelling and Gramma, I hooked mondays and Fridays so I could either hunt or fish.
[This message has been edited by old geezer (edited 10 June 2006).]