( Not wanting to hijack glousterman’s thread, I thought I would start a new one. )
Just wondering - has anyone ever actually calculated the weight savings achieved by using single foot snake guides rather than standard snake guides and determined how that weight savings affects rod performance ??
John
John,
I do not know the answer to your question, but, a good rod building friend of mine and I were discussing rod building one day. We were talking about one fly rod I have that was rated as med/fast which I think leaned more toward medium and I said that maybe if we put double footed guides on it that might stiffen it up a bit and he told me that if you put double footed guides on it, it would make it slower which I found interesting.
With your permission, I will follow this thread and see what the experts here have to say about the weight difference between single and double footed guides. It should be interesting. Good question, by the way…
i have not calculated them or actually weighed them but i was looking at my st croix rod that has single foot guides and if you were to rebend them into a snake guide it looks like they would weigh the same.
i dont believe there is any weight savings or if there is, it is negligible
vs
John… I have to agree with Norm on this one…Ed
I’ve built about 15 rods, and of course, fished many more. I don’t think you can even tell the difference as far as weight. I’m sure if you used huge surf guides on a 3 wt. you might sense something.
I agree with everyone here. I don’t think the weight difference really makes a difference. Now that being said as most rod builders know the more thread or items you put on a rod after a certain point then takes away from the action. Is that negotiable I think not, depending on what you are wrapping with and how much more you are putting on a rod. I firmly believe, and this is jut my opinion, that if you match the guides, handle, and reel seat to the rod and you spine the rod correctly, you will get the best preformance out of a rod. I know there are others who do not spine the rod and that is all good. that is just my personnal prefference.
The only weight savings would be the amount of one wrap and finish on each snake guide. What that amounts to will be determined by how you wrap, and how much finish you apply.
PS…The only appreciable weight I want to feel on a rod, is the big fish on the end of it.
Just wanted to keep it lite folks…lol…Ed
Ed -
It was intended to be lite !!
As a follow up question ( uh oh ?? ), who can honestly say that they personally have been able to tell the difference in rod action and casting distance and casting accuracy and other fish catching qualities ( given exactly the same blanks, exactly the same grips, exactly the same reel seats using the same lines, leaders, and flies ) BETWEEN two rods where the ONLY difference is the use of single foot snake guides and standard snake guides of the same size and manufacture ???
John
Not I john… and when I said lite .it was just a play on words as in the weight.lol
Anyway I think we are approching the purple rod syndrome again…lol… Ed
Not a chance. IMO, of course. 
I just did a quick measurement and added up the length of the snake and stripper guide on my 7’6" 5 wt. The combined length was just under 9" of guides, with single foot guides this would be reduced at least in half, a little more I believe. Each double footed guide adds some resistance to flexing, would there be a noticeable difference using single foot guides?
Jesse -
Your signature reminds me of my favorite lines from Rudyard Kipling’s poem “If” -
“If you can meet with triumph and disaster,
and treat those two imposters just the same …”
John
P.S. Is it possible to hijack your own thread ???
P.S.1 Jesse - in totally static conditions, it is conceivable that the 4" of additional snake guide footing could alter the flexing. Having fly fished somewhere 800 times in the past six years, I can honestly say that I have never fished in static conditions.
My question was for the “real” world - not for a science lab. I think your question is the same one, phrased differently ??
I think the answer to the origianl question is: ‘maybe’ . . . see if the guides you’re interested in are posted @ http://rodcomponents.koolhost.com/guides.htm
John,
I can’t take credit for the line, I borrowed it from someone else, just liked the thought.
As for the question, my thought was it was possible for a really good line flinger to feel the difference in a rod with single foot as opposed to snake guides. I seriously doubt that I would ever be able to do so. I haven’t built a rod in several years, the thread was getting too small for my eyes, but I just rememberd I have a lighted magnifying glass I use for tying, so maybe I will finish that 3 wt. that has been sitting in the rack for too long.
Not all single foot guides are the wire wrapped back to the foot creating a double wire for the single foot. So I don’t think you can say they are essentially the same length as a double foot guide.
I use Fuji Alconite #6’s. And I don’t care if there is a weight difference. I hate double foot guides and use single foot guides only. Period.
I am a little confused, Are you using the same size guide all the way up the blank? What size would you reccomend for a 6’6" tiger eye 2/3 wt?? Would you also use one , two or no stripping guides??
Dan
You can follow this guide for your question … http://www.flyfisherman.com/rodbuilding/index6.html PS …light wire guides (either single or double foot) and one stripper…Ed
I have read about this this topic in the past. There seems to be many possibilities about which guides are most affective. Which guide affects rod bend and action the least? Whcih one is heavier? Do snake guides create more friction on the line do to the line potentially rubbing against two sides? Which one can have a better feel? Overall it would take a huge undertaking to test if in fact either would be an advantage over the other? Ultimately I can cast or fish with either type. I catch fish with both types of guides. However on most rods I would rather wrap single foot guides than snake.
Gloucestermen
I use a Fuji Alconite BLAG #8 for the first stripper, a #7 for the second stripper and then you are correct. I use all the same size the rest of the way. I do not stagger the guide sizes. Even use the #6 for the tip top…I don’t use the slide on tube type tip tops. After I figure out all the spots I want to put a guide and mark them…I stick on one extra guide, about 4" above the last numver 7…I put on another #7 as a tamer guide to prevent line wrap. Could probably be left of on a short rod.
A 6’ or shorter blank I would be very tempted to use all 6’s and no strippers. But I am quite the rookie and I sometimes do it my way instead of conventional wisdom. So pls don’t take my comments as coming from an expert.
For a 2/3 wt I would probably take a shot at HFB #5’s. In fact I know I would. I think American Tackle makes them. I bought them from a shop in TN. And I probably wouldn’t even use stripper guides. But that is a guess shot. Haven’t done it yet. Depends on how brave and adventurous you are. I would do it. But then I like to experiment.
I would call and talk to him as opposed to ordering online. The last time I did he gave me a big discount over the online price. Don’t know if that is his typical procedure but he sold them to me for forty nine cents each. Pls don’t tell him I told you all this. But I would call and discuss your purchase and see what price you end up with.
I know about the concept of funneling the energy down the guides by staggering them in size, and the concept of oversized guides for less friction, and the concept of excess guides as you can read about on Global Dorber icw the Lil’ Streamer rod. I don’t buy any of it. It may be true and I may not win any distance contests with my rods. But I just build fishing poles and they seem to work well enough for me.
I think oversized guides came into being when they were making guides out of paper clips. Now the technology has created much lighter and slicker guides with ceramic inserts, slicker better fly lines…I go with undersized guides and fewer guides.
Just my way. Just FYI cause you asked.