Seal dubbing

All about flies Fly Tying
1

I was watching a tying video on the internet and the recipe called for seal dubbing. The tyer said he was actually using real seal that he got when he purchased a Russian military surplus hat made with seal lining.

This sounds plausible because 1.) I doubt there were any Soviets protesting the harvesting of seals without fear of free room and board at the Gulag. 2.) since the collapse of the USSR, there is all kinds of Russian surplus available and 3.) there are hats made from nearly every other kind of real fur (rabbit, beaver, fox, mink, muskrat etc.) so why not seal?

My question is, even if one could buy Eastern European military surplus with furs not readily available in the U.S. is it legal to do so, and would you?

After Googling around on this topic, it does seem like a viable source for seal, but at a steep price. However the amount of seal in one hat would likely last several dozen tyers a lifetime.

Before you scoff at 2 or 3 hundred bucks for a fur hat, consider that buying deer hair in the 3x4 patches at the fly shop makes the entire deer skin cost well over $500 on the conservative side.

2

If you are really cost conscious for deer hair and bucktail you can take up deer hunting and you will get FREE hair and bucktails, not to mention all of the healthy meat. Can’t help you with the seal fur however unless you want to move to Alaska and take up seal hunting.

3

Buggie-One
I don’t think I’d ever consider purchasing a hat with the thoughts of tying from it. I don’t want to have to worry what kind of “life” it led before coming to my house! <eeewwww> Or what kind of “life” it would bring with it! <double eeeewwwww!!>

I prefer to purchase real seal from Feather Craft, all clean, nicely dyed, neatly assorted in little bags, suitable for my tying cabinet (where you gunna keep a hat, or two??).

Am I losing my adventure!!! :wink:

4

My understanding is that as long as the source was inside the U.S. as of the ban, and you can prove it, then you are legal (i.e. same rule as polar bear). Being able to prove it, has always been an issue, but old seal fur jackets has been a source of seal in the US for some time now. I cannot imagine that importing a seal product today would be legal, however.

5

I don’t know about the legality of buying and importing military surplus furs into the US, but I wouldn’t do it myself, personally. Unless you know exactly the type of seal fur you are getting, it could be different from what you want for tying flies. I believe there are cheaper and better sources of seal fur available for tying flies.

6

About 20 years ago, I found a seal coat for $10 in a garage sale here in south Louisiana by a grad student at LSU who was originally from New York. I coolly placed thee coat on a pile of other “stuff” my bride was purchasing, and ! went on looking for more stuff. When I came to purchase “my coat”, I saw the grad student going up the stairs with MY coat! I asked my bride what was going on and she said that i didn’t “need that old coat” and it had belonged to the grad student’s deceased mother. So, my bride convinced the young lady to keep the coat!

After several more years of looking for a seal coat, I found one in an antique clothing store, again for $10! This time I purchased the coat, which was beautiful but needed re-sewing. When my bride and I got it back to the house, I placed the coat on the bed. My bride then saw how beautiful the coat was and decided to “try it on”. Well, it was a perfect fit! SO, my mother offered to have it re-sewn for my bride!!!

In case you’re wondering, I’m still looking for a seal coat… If I ever find another one, I’ll take a razor blade to it before it ever gets to the car!!

Bowfin47

7

Lots of seal fur coats for sale all the time. Here’s a seal fur coat for sale that’s in mint condition, with mink fur around the cuffs. I bet that mink fur could be dyed in a multitude of colors and would produce a zillion killer nymphs.

8

I have purchased seal from cookskill’s several times, no problem I have also purchased it from http://www.pechetruite.com. They have the best I have found. I also bought some from a fellow in Washington state and on ebay and from Canada. Not all seal is the same. if it comes from a coat it will usually be sheared which will make it stiff and very little long guard hair. That is the same for polar bear. Good PB has very long guard hair and very thick under fur. If you take a hair rake PB makes some great dubbing and the guard hair makes great wings.

9

You can get seal dubbing from John at FeathersMc or Steve at Cookshill. Both are good, reasonably priced and quite legal.

10

Uncle Jesse,

Are you REALLY suggesting that taking up hunting will get you your deer hair for FREE???

Rifle and scope: $300 to $1,000.

Ammunition to practice with or you won’t get no deer: About a buck a shot now days (pun intended). Ammo’s getting expensive.

Licenses and permits: $30 to $300 depending on where you live and where you hunt (could be more some places, I don’t hunt so I’m not up on the rising costs of deer tags).

Huntin’ clothes: $200 (got to have that no smell camo stuff, plus the undies that keep you warm, that funny bright orange cap so other hunters don’t mistake you for a deer and shoot you,etc…)

TIME spent scouting around looking for the deer before you can go and shoot it: hard to value, but it could keep you from fishing for a few days…about $1,000/day if that happens ;).

Of course, then you have to be where you can shoot a deer during the hunting season…good luck.

Then, you got to see a deer you are capable of shooting…good luck.

Then, you got to actually hit it…Good luck…even good shots get buck fever the first time out…And if you only wound it, you got to track it down and shoot it again…First time hunter success in the US is well below 50%

If you actually shoot it and manage to kill it, then you got to cut it open, take out the guts, skin it, then take the hide and clean it and then dry or tan it…lots of really messy work that even enthusiastic hunters wouldn’t call ‘fun’. And if you don’t do it correctly, and most don’t the first time, the stuff is useless and you got to start over. Depending on where you live/hunt, that may mean ‘next year’…

$500 for a whole hide sounds like a bargain to me…and if you really want a full sized deer skin, you can get one already tanned for lots less than that…but if you want it in various colors buying it already cut up and dyed from the fly shop is still WAY cheaper, both in time and treasure, than hunting it yourself.

Besides, if you find the piece of deer skin you want at the fly shop, they won’t make you do anything but pay for it…no shooting, no walking around in the woods, no carrying a seeping, bloody carcass too far too late in the day…

Hunting ain’t cheap. Success isn’t assured.

I’ll buy my deer hair, or get it from my friends who already hunt and know how.

:slight_smile:

Buddy

.

11

Hi Bass Bug,

To answer your question, I would never go that far since it’s just way too expensive, and you would end up with way too much of one color. There are really only two types of seals fur available today, baby and mature. Unless your into only tying really big fly’s and like agravation trying to get the hair to adhere to the thread, baby seal is what you want. Most places sell the baby fur. You can tell since there’s a lot of squiggly fine hairs mixed with some fine diameter straight hairs here and there. Feather-craft sells a mix as their Real-Seal dubbing, so it’s not pure seals fur. I have one pack in Tup’s pink, and I don’t see any baby seal in it. The pic above of the sheared coat may not have any guard hairs at full length, but the underfur makes for great dubbing for smaller sized flies. The only problem with that is it’s just one dark color. If you don’t mind waiting a few weeks, this guy has the best baby seal dubbing at the lowest price available anywhere. I believe that many places over in the UK get it from this guy and just re-package it, since it’s identical to what he has. His link is http://www.haresfeet.50megs.com/sealfur.htm. Besides very good quality duck quills, Seals fur is one of those things that was very easy to get in any type, variety, color, or coarseness years ago either on the skin or not, that you just can’t get today. Here’s a pic of just some of the fur that I have from way back still on the hide.
Regards,
Mark

12

try;

http://www.davemcneese.com/sealfur.html

13

Buddy’s correct in everything that he said, except that he left out the fact that in many parts of the country, the deer hair is too short and not worth tying with…

I know, I still have a couple of “southern” deer hides that ain’t worth squat!

14

Buddy,

I guess you could say the same thing about the final cost of deer burger or steaks, or trout, whether you eat them or not. Strange, but I never kept the hide from any of the deer I harvested. I did get a nice tanned deer hide from a taxidermist back about 1994 in Mich. for about $30.00. I got a big tanned deer hide recently at a garage sale for $5.00. I’ve found elk hides at swap shops for cheap etc. I have a small patch of natural seal fur, which I’ve yet to use. I’ve had it for at least 14yrs. Guess I better get tying!!!

Best regards, Dave S.

15

All kidding aside.

Real seal is pricey, but you can still get it. I just wonder why anyone would want it.

There are synthetics and mixes of other furs that are very close to ‘real’ seal.

Does anyone really believe the fish care if it’s real seal or not?

I know some tyers care, their reasons are their own.

I just can’t believe it maters, even a little bit, to the fish…

I just can’t get the image of those cute little white seal pups out of my head…guess I’m getting soft in my old age.

Buddy

16

Buddy,

Obviously you did not see my tongue firmly embedded in my cheek as I typed out my reply. Is there more expensive meat in the world than that you kill while hunting? I think for most of us the answer is no. But there is something about vension from a fresh kill, just like fish caught, cleaned and cook taste the best.

17

All I’m gonna say is that I just recently started tying with real seal, both mature and baby. Baby is good for small flies, like small wet flies and nymphs for trout, mature is much spikier and buggier, and great on big nymphs and (especially) streamers. I’ve tried a few different subs and some come close, but none are ‘practically the same’.

Mature seal is not hard to use at all. If the normal ‘dubbing noodle’ wont work, a dubbing loop makes it just as easy as can be. Dubbing loops are also, in my experience, more durable, so that’s what I use all the time.

18

I work deals with hunters for furs and feathers. I mostly deal for long elk mane that I need for hackles on the giant flies.
But for deer hair, I buy the hi-grade strips with the longest hair. Two reasons, one- the hi-grade strips are well maintained and dyed without being brittle.
Two- the strips come with well-tanned thick leather that is water-proof. I use these for legs and tails on many flies after I have cut the hair from the strip.

19

“Unless your into only tying really big fly’s and like agravation trying to get the hair to adhere to the thread, baby seal is what you want.”

All seal, polar bear, mole hair, squirrel - anything- will rope-dub without having to adhere to the thread. This is the difference in rope-dubbing as opposed to other dubbing methods. The thread or wire does not twist, and the dubbing material does NOT adhere to the thread or wire, yet seal will dub tight enough to make segments.

20

how much for seal??