Save the loons.

I just spent several hours, more like five or so, looking at the data relevant to lead and fishing tackle deaths regarding loons. I actually found more data than just the tufts studies and the michigan one.

I readily admit here that I was wrong. Lead and fishing takcle is killing loons, lots of them.

There are two areas of concern. First, is lead poisoning. This occurs when the loon inadvertanly consumes the lead. The lead is soluized (sp?) by the digestive juices and enters the blood stream. Enough lead, and it doesn’t take very much, and you have dead loon. Most of this poisoning is caused by lead shotgun pellets. They are mitigatng that with steel shot regulations, but they have been hunting in these areas with shotguns for hundreds of years. It will continue to be problem, if a lessening one, over time. Some of the deaths are from lead fishing sinkers, jigs, split shot. This is picked up by the bird for some reason, one researccher thought that it could just be that it’s shiny and round. No one knows why it happens, but it does happen. They are mitigating that with banns on lead sinkers and jigs of certain sizes.

The second area of concern is the fishing tackle itself. I saw some cool videos. Loons are fast, efficient predators. They can take a minnow and swallow it almost faster than the eye can follow. I doubt that a modren multiplying reel can pull in line faster than a loon can swim.

Here’s where it gets to be problem. The angler is knowledgeable and efficient. He’s using light line and a small hook with his minnow to offer the fish as lifelike a bait as he can. If he uses weight, it’s a small non lead shot. If he uses a float, it’s a small, delicate one that will let him detect even the gentlest strike.

A loon takes his minnow. He doesn’t see the bird, just feels the take or sees his float go down. He sets the hook. You now have a loon with small sharp hook either in it’s oral cavity or in it’s throat. The line is light, though, and the loons bill is sharp. The line parts at the bill. Good chance the loon survives, but the wound may get infected, or the hook may be in such a place where it impedes the birds ability to take in nutrition. Then the bird dies. Did everything that could be done, it jsut sometimes happens.

I’m not trying to be funny here, this is totally strereotypical, but stereotypes are valid where they really exist, and we’ve all seen or fished around this guy:

He has fished a few times, but he’s not an expert. He just wants to catch a few fish for his family. Nothing wrong with that. He’s not a bad fisherman, he’s just inexperienced. He wants to eat the fish he catches, so he’s using heavy line, like 25 pound test mono. Nothing can get away. He askes at the local tackle store what the fish are biting on. He’s told minnows, so he buys a couple of dozen with a samll bait bucket to keep them alive. The store clerk advises him of the ban on lead, so he buys some heavy lead substitute sinkers. He also buys some #2/0 snelled bait hooks, a package of 3 way swivels, some of those four inch round red and white plastic bobbers, and he’s off to the lake.

He pulls off about three feet of line from his rod and ties the hook snell to it, then ties that to the 3 way swivel. He next pulls off another couple of feet of line, an ties the non lead weight to that, then ties it to the swivel. He ties the line from the rod to the remaining eye on his swivel, then attaches his bobber a couple of feet up from that.

Our fisherman then impales a minnow and makes a really long cast. He sits back to wait for his fish to bite.

A loon comes by and eats the minnow. He thinks, as most anyone would, that he’s getting a bite from a fish. So he sets the hook and begins to reel in his fish. He’s not breaking any laws, he’s done everything he knows to do properly. This isn’t his fault.

Now, several things can happen. First is that the hook certainly penetrates the loon someplace. Where and how badly depends on how fast our angler was with his hookset, but that 2/0 bait hook is someplace in that bird. And then it’s worse. Best case seneario, the guy didn’t tie a very good knot and the leader from the hook to the swivel comes loose, hopefully at the hook. Loon might live, but that’s a big hook. If the line parts where the main line joins the swivel (that’s where the most stress is in casting that kind of rig) then we have a problem. The loon is not only hooked, but there are several feet of mono that’s attached to swivel and a heavy weight. That’s going to tangle in something and the bird, if the hookset didn’t kill it, is going to die.

Maybe nothing breaks. The angler reels in the bird. The loon is a bit upset, and it has that strong sharp beak. It would be nice to think that the angler would be conscientious and cut the line as close to bird as is safe. It’s likely, though, that he’ll cut the line as soon as he realizes it’s not a fish. That loon will die.

And it’s not just inexperienced anglers that are a probelm. Loons can catch and will catch and try to eat, all manner of minnow imitations. They’ll even eat that ball of power bait so beloved to trout bait fishermen.

So the guy who is smallmouth fishing with a soft jerkbait will kill a loon if it hits. The hooks are big, the baits is often held to the hook with a screwlock or other device to keep it in place, so the loon either chokes or drowns if the hookset doesn’t kill it.

So will most of the crankbait fishermen. Most of them may be able to get the bait out of the oral cavity, but some federal and some state legislation won’t allow you to even touch the bird. With two treble hooks, or more, it can’t swallow it and it can’t spit it out. Another dead loon.

Jig fishermen, either tipped with a live minnow or some soft plastic or strip of flesh, will also attract the loons. It’s often the hook set that does the damage, combined with any excess line. If the fisherman doesn’t see the bird, and they can get down deeper than we can often see, the hook trauma alone can be enough to kill the bird. Doesn’t matter if the jig is lead or not.

And us fly fishermen are not immune. Trolling with double hook streamers got it’s beginning in these areas. Some older accounts talk of hooking the poor loons. It’s pretty clear that if you throw a streamer around a loon, it may try to eat it. But, what then? Fly hooks aren’t all that big, and they can rust out, right? Maybe. But if the line breaks at where the tippet is tied to the leader, then you have that whole tangling problem and another dead loon. Loose mono is deadly stuf, and it’s doesn’t take much to get tangled and cause a bird to drown.

I didn’t make up these scenarios. I found a version of all them in my navigating.

I’ve seen fishing shows on TV where the host had to leave the area because the loon wouldn’t leave the lures alone.

Apparently, from all the data I found, this tackle related deaths of loons accounts for around 40 percent of dead loons examined. That’s a lot of loons.

So, what do ethical anglers do?

It’s a simple solution.

Bann all fishing in waters where loons are prevalent.

They don’t occupy every area, and there is plenty of fishable waters where you seldom see a loon. The states where they are have been studying them for decades, they have population densities and can make informed decisions on where and when to close waters.

It would be so easy to do. The fishermen could find other areas to fish. The states where the loons are have abundant aquatic habitats. There are lots of places to fish. The loons will be safe from at least that cause of their demise.

We wouldn’t be able to save them all, but it would certainly be a good start.

I’m really sorry if my earlier posts seemed to belittle the death of the loons. Now that I’ve researched it and seen the data, I pretty sure that this is the only sane thing to do.

Again, I apologize. The haunting call of the loon is a precious resource. We can’t let them be killed by us when we can stop it.

Humbled.

Buddy

Buddy,
I don’t mean to sound argumentative, as I certainly am not, Or callous … but … are there THAT many deaths to the loons? Granted, ONE is too many to have die a horrid death like that … but, to ban fishing if there are loons around? I’m just not understanding. Help me out here, if you would, please.

What I dont understand is that you have taken EVERY position about lead with the exceptions of being inside out or upside down? Which is it?

How about along with “Save the Loons” we save the whales; elephants and the fur seals.???:rolleyes:

I agree—I wonder how much lead I have after 87 years casting lead jigs and toy soldiers years ago,siphon gas with a hose,loading shot gun shells. Dont think I ate much lead paint. BILL

Where did you find the information about all the Loons dying from lead?
Could it be from the same people that had lead bullets baned in Ca. because of the Condors. I have never seen a Loon come close to my boat let alone try to eat my minnow while Crappy fishing.

So we went from banning lead to banning fishing? :???:
If lead is indeed poisoning loons in certain areas of the country…by all means ban it there.
I don’t have to do any research to know the number of loons killed incidentally by fishing tackle, other than insidious lead, is insignificant.
40% of how many dead loons? 10? 100? 1,000? 10,000???

I was retrieving a lure (spinning gear) a number of years back while fishing in Canada. I thought I saw a large pike following my lure. As it got closer, I realized it was a loon swimming underwater chasing the lure. YIKES! I sped up my retrieve so I wouldn’t hook it!

There’s been other times in Canada where loons would pop up near our boat and even swim around the boat for 20 minutes or more. They would chase fish that we’d release overboard.

So, it happens.

Birds have a crop. They will swallow pebbles into their crop, which helps them grind up their food before it reaches their stomach since they can’t chew. I imagine Loons might grab pebbles off the bottom of the lake…and if they see lead split shot down there, that would be about the perfect size of “pebble” to swallow?

Not trying to steal the thread. I have personally seen large heaps ( hundreds of loons) piled up on a remote beach West of Grand Marais MI. The loons had been caught in the illeagal gill nets pieces of which were laying about.

What in the world has this guy been smokin’?

Well played, Mr. Sanders, well played. :wink:

Buddy didnt know they had Loons in Tucson Az–let the people that have them in their state woory about lead. BILL:lol:

i do believe he is trying to make a point. if banning lead will save some loons then saving even more loons by banning fishing is just as reasonable a position to take. so those that agree with banning lead should/must agree with banning lead. that’s if you follow logic.

Loons are my favorite bird by far; watching them on the lake is like watching a bald Eagle in flight. I have spent many years watching them in northern Michigan at our family cabin. Michigan University Owns several and I mean several acres around Douglas Lake (Pellston, MI.) located on the lake is Michigan University biology center they have done several studies on the Loons. I did find some information about the decline of the Loons (see attached web page) good information on Loons here is one piece of the article - Ongoing Issue: Lead Poisoning in Loons: MLPA-MLW has been at the forefront of addressing this issue for many years, sponsoring an international lead symposium with crafting of a cooperative effort for action, creating and distributing an informational brochure and initiating ongoing educational efforts statewide.
http://www.michiganloons.blogspot.com/

Betty, et al.

As far as the numbers of deaths from ‘fishing tackle’, not lead poisoning, the deaths are in the thousands. Albeit over a span of time, something like ten yeras or so , but it’s notabsolutely clear, as some studies overlapp, both in time and areas. It was enough to convince me that it’s not a trivial amount.

I’m not saying bann fishing everywhere. Nor am I for bannig the use of lead in fly fishing tackle in areas where there aren’t loons. Two separate issues. I believe, from the data I examined, that the lead poisoning issue is real, but it’s primarily from lead shotgun pellets accumulated over a couple of centuries. Banning lead in fishing tackle won’t do much to help with that, but where loons are, it certainly can’t hurt, and as was pointed out in an earlier thread, why not?

It’s the deaths from the fish hook, bait sinker, jig head, and fishing line combinations that seems to me to be easily preventable.

Loons are an endangered species that has been studied for decades. The researchers know where these birds are, and where they aren’t. Closing the waters where loons are most likely to interact with fishermen would be a simple solution to this problem.

Anglers would just have to adjust where they fish. Along with the closures, they could put in a rule that if a fisherman encounters a loon on the water the fisherman has to move to another area where there isn’t a loon.

I can’t see anything wrong with this, and I’m usually the first guy to squawk about this type of thing. In this limited situation though, it makes perfect sense to me.

As an example:

We have a large lake here in Arizona, Lake Pleasent just a bit north and east of Phoenix. It’s a good sized reservoir. Near one large arm of the lake, a pair of bald eagles found a nesting site. They close the whole area. Miles of it to boats, fishing, foot traffic, everything, to allow the eagles to nest in peace. No one gripes about it. There is lots of lake left to fish, and it’s cool to see the eagles flying around up there so close to major urban center.

There are states where they close waters to fishing based on seasons. Other states close waters for reasons not understandable by rational humans. In areas of the pacific northwest, they can close, or severly limit, fishing for certain species due to low stocks of the fish. Closures are nothing new. I don’t see the problem here.

If you take it as good thing, a fly fishing group could, and probably should, do this proactively. After a bit of research, the members of a group could decide that the danger to loons in certain waters where they fish is high, so they could voluntarily stop fishing there. This would show a true concern for a very visible environmental problem, maybe jumpstart the state into doing something officially, and take the crosshairs of the anti fishing crowd off of the fly fishermens chests.

I see this as a simple no brainer solution to this problem. Really, why not? There are plenty of other places to fish.

Buddy

Buddy I’m not trying to be rude here…but on the other hand I’m not working real hard to avoid it. I tend to be a bit blunt, and if that bothers you then so be it.

I think you’re loon. I can back my statement up by evidence that you yourself provided.

Have you really thought this through? Have you looked at a map showing the Loon’s range? If not, let me summarize for you. THIER BREEDING RANGE IS ALL OF CANADA AND AT LEAST PART OF EVERY STATE ALONG OUR NORTHERN BORDER AND THEY WINTER ALONG THE ENTIRE NORTH AMERICAN COASTLINE!!! Do you seriously want to ban fishing on MOST OF THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTINENT? I suppose that banning fishing in those areas wouldn’t bother you because you live in Arizona, but I am sure that it would bother the hell out of everyone affected.

They don’t occupy every area, and there is plenty of fishable waters where you seldom see a loon. The states where they are have been studying them for decades, they have population densities and can make informed decisions on where and when to close waters.

It would be so easy to do. The fishermen could find other areas to fish. The states where the loons are have abundant aquatic habitats. There are lots of places to fish. The loons will be safe from at least that cause of their demise.

Where did you do your research? On the PETA website? The truth is that loons are a migratory bird. They migrate from areas along the coast to northern breeding habitats in the summers and back to the coasts in the winters. Any lead used in any of these areas would still be there when the birds got back, not to mention any fishing lures that got tangled up underwater. Furthermore, if the loon population begins to rise, they will spread into areas that they may not currently occupy.

Let me make it clear. I am not belittling your desire to save the loons. I have been to Canada and enjoyed them firsthand. It is certainly worth making an effort to save them, however, I believe that your “solution” is ridiculously simplistic and shortsighted and would lead to a total ban on fishing.

Finally, I would like to address your apparent disdain for those folks out there who fish (at least in part) to put food on their tables. What gives you the right to have any sort of negative attitude about these people? They have just as much right to utilize the resource as anyone else does. As long as they obey local game laws, have the proper permits, and don’t deliberately abuse the resource then they should be left in peace. Your statement seems a bit more like a prejudice against what you perceive to be a lack of education or sophistication than it does a normal example a person trying to bring home a meal while having a good time.

I’m not trying to be funny here, this is totally strereotypical, but stereotypes are valid where they exist, and we’ve all seen or fished around this guy:…“Holy Hannah Marge!! I got me a bite!”

I can assure you that you were not funny. Instead your statements came across to me as the words of an elitist busybody who has nothing better to do than look down his nose at his fellow sportsman. If that is the attitude that you wish to have, I hope that you stay in Tucson where I will probably never have the displeasure of sharing the water with you.

FISH

Lets all fish in Arizona!! No loons (well … questionable:rolleyes:) Only eagles … and they were taken off the endangered list (and, I understand, they taste quite a bit like chicken, or spotted owl).

OK … before we all get our panties in a bind … I think Buddy is trying to make a point. Everything ties in to something else. We need to do what we each can do from our own standpoint to correct our situation. Without going overboard. Right, Buddy?

I would disagree with your statement about Loons not coming close to the boat, like I said I spent several hours on the lake fishing and watching the Loons they will come several feet away from your boat and put on a show for you. For your statement about the “same people that had lead bullets banned” well being a duck hunter I had concerns at first but after looking at the big picture I definitely agree with banning lead shot. My opinion only

Let me make it clear. I am not belittling your desire to [insert noble purpose here]… It is certainly worth making an effort to [noble purpose], however, I believe that your “solution” is ridiculously simplistic and shortsighted and would lead to a total ban on fishing.

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

Johnny, tell him what he’s won!

Bottom line: Saying that lead used in fishing tackle is responsible for mass loon death via lead poisoning is like telling me the white tail deer I took during hunting season died from rapid onset of lead poisoning.

To Buddy: Thanks for conveying the point more elegantly than I could have managed.

All this drama should be captured for the Fall television season. You are all a bunch of loons. :stuck_out_tongue:

If they banned fishing because there are some loons around, there would be no place left to fish. Opps! Sorry, wrong loons.