San Juan River Quality Waters Trout Stamp

FAOL Community Conservation
1

This post is to solicit your support on a Annual Trout Stamp Bill benefiting the San Juan River Watershed currently in several committees within the New Mexico Legislative session. This Stamp and proceeds will benefit the San Juan River 100%. The funds raised by this Stamp will be utilized in 3 major categories, Trout Stocking, Stream Improvement and Enforcement. None of the funds will end up in a ? general fund ? and will be allocated solely for the benefit of the San Juan River.

Several prominent groups already support this initiative. New Mexico Trout, San Juan River Guide Association, San Juan River Foundation, Federation of Fly Fishers and the Tri-cities of Farmington, Bloomfield and Aztec support this fully. The impact to the consumer will be and annual fee of $ 5.00 for New Mexico residents and $10.00 for Non-residents. This will be charged when licenses are purchased or renewed and will be for fishing the San Juan River Quality Waters only.

We last week received a 100% positive response to this bill and are sending hard copies of this email campaign to Santa Fe so the committees will see the overwhelming opinion of the sportsmen who frequent the San Juan. I just received notice that the Concerned Citizen’s Group has emailed their contingency to ask the State to table this bill. This stance continues to disappoint many of us in the community. It is apparent the only thing the Concerned Citizen’s care about is to have a platform to lay blame and lobby against the Oil and Gas Industry. They are aligned with Oscar Simpson with NM Wildlife Federation and Trout Unlimited Nationally. If they cared about the river like they say the do, they would be behind this positive contribution for the river 100%.

In addition, the Concerned Citizens were part of the initial idea to sponsor such a bill. Now that want to change their mind. We have wanted to say this for a long time but is their agena about the river, or it is about ego ?

In closing, the current economic climate has prevented the State of New Mexico from funding improvements and projects on our beloved San Juan. This is a way for us sportsmen who love the outdoors and the San Juan to make a difference. In the grand scheme of things, this is a nominal way for us all to contribute to the continued improvement of our watershed for generations to come.

San Juan River Foundation
www.sanjuanriverfoundation.org

2

Just a question or two, since you are asking me for $ to do things.

What is the stocking plan, or what changes do you propose to fund with this money? Do you have science supporting the need to stock more (or less, or differently) than is done now, or is this just to offset the costs incurred by NMFG to stock? Will changes in stocking be subject to public review/environmental analysis?

What sort of stream improvement? Structural enhancements? Flow regime changes? Gravel supplement? Is there research and data available to support any proposed work? If habitat work improves spawning, will stocking be reduced to compensate? Will this pay for the environmental analyses required to do this work on public lands? Will it be used to pay for education, efforts to prevent aquatic nuisance species, wash stations for boats, and the like?

What part(s) of the San Juan will this $ be spent on? Will the $ be spent solely on public lands/waters? Will it be required only on public waters (how far down from the dam, in other words)? Is this an additional fee over the state parks fee you have to pay to fish much of the tailwater? Is the fee $10 for nonresidents for a year, and if so, calendar year or year from date of purchase, or will you need to buy this stamp each time you purchase a short-term nonresident license?

How much $ IS the gas industry contributing to work on the river there?

And, well, I am all for the enforcement.

3

OK being a member of this board I am going to step in here.
first off the Oil and Gas industry has already donated well over $200,000.00 towards projects on the juan.
TU and other groups were asked but they declined to help.
We have asked for YEARS for help on the Juan only to be told to take a hike from TU etc.
Studies will be done before any work in stream work is done.
There is a plan in place for much of what you ask, somehow I think you already know that.

4

I am all about preserving fishing and hunting for future generations. I am also in support of amendmants stating that hunting and fishing is a citizens right. I do not wish to end up like some other countries where the government and certain individuals control who may have those rights. That being said I would pay the $10.00 as a person coming from out of state to fish your beloved SJ. I know that many people rely on that fishery to make their living. However many people also rely on the oil business and manufacturing for their livelyhood.

I have been a supporter of TU since I was a child in Michigan. I may be mistaken but it seems to me that their mission is becoming more radical inviroment control. They no longer wish to protect and preserve, but now fight against what they consider change. We must all strike a balance between progress, peoples jobs, and preserving rivers and other waters.
Good luck

5

No worries, Bubba, I know good things can happen if people put their minds to it.

Just that the first posting was a little thin on details and heavy on emotional appeal, and a little contradictory. 100% support but some are against it… If you are asking for support, the people you ask deserve to know the whole plan. Hence the long list of questions for people who do not already know the answers.

6

DG,
I personally have been working on this for 2 years now. And I can tell you everything you have asked has been looked at and quite a bit more as well. This has taken a lot of work by a lot of people to get it to this point.
For many, many years we have asked TU and NMWF for help in addressing the flows being changed on the Juan and the effect it would have. We were told flat out we were a tailwater and to more or less take a hike.
So we started this with help from the Fly Fishing Federation, local businesses and the local fisherman.
It is frustrating to see TU fighting us on this, they simply don’t give a damn about this river our the people that use it. this is about an agenda on oil and gas. They have thrown the river under the bus with negitive and false radio ads, newspaper stories, etc.
I was told by the fellow that runs TU national for New Mexico that TU is no longer an angling group. TU is now an enviromental group.
TU has lost touch with the average fisherman
sorry for the rant guys

7

All of this info about the San Juan is a bit troubling.

Too bad about TU as well. I was about to become a member. I will have to do a bit more research it seems…

8

Bubba, you say that everything I ask has been looked at, and I do not doubt it, but…

What are the answers to those questions I posed earlier? THAT you did not provide us. Just saying that you looked at them doesn’t actually give the uninformed reader, who are the people you are asking for support, specific information. All I am asking for is information.

Remember that many, if not most, of the people this will effect do not KNOW the politics of the situation, and assuming that we know the players and why they are, or are not, supporting this, or what conservation measures you are trying to implement.

Even links to where these questions might be answered. I am assuming you have the draft legislation (or something similar) already written up? That would also be helpful.

9

Bubba,
You have recomfirmed my thoughts about TU. After reading their magazine over the years it is becoming more apparent that they are moving in a specific direction. Who knows where their actions may lead.

10

I am new to this discussion as I have never had the opportunity to fish the San Juan yet. What exactly is TU against here? What kind of negative and false ads are they running? Are there links where I can view these? Does TU not include tailwaters in their plans? I would love to know more about this so any links to provide me with further information would be greatly appreciated. I have a very close friend who is in the NM State Senate and I would love to be as knowledgeable as possible before discussing it with him.

11

Bubba speaks the truth about TU. Please listen to his facts about them and the San Juan situation. Bubba and I have known each other for about 2 years. We both in addition to a good friend Paul Freeman stepped up to try and assist the Juan as much as we could. We formed the San Juan River Foundation, a certified 501c3 non-profit. Although that has been slow to get off the ground, Bubba has been on the front lines, trying to get anything creative done for this river.

We have the momentum now to at least have an avenue to raise money for the river. It it a long term project, but the flows will not change. They will not go up. We have to craft change in the river so that it can exist and prosper under the current BOR conditions.

There are groups out there that want to point fingers at NMFG, BLM and the BOR. They have contributed little to nothing to benefit the river. All we ask is that common sense prevails. The people (sportsmen) want this stamp. It is nominal and could start something positive in contrast to all the negative out there.

Thanks for allowing my rant and please sound off in support of this initiative that is so close to happening.

PS. 2008 was the last year TU got my money. Put yours in place elsewhere in your local community or with the Federation of Fly Fishers. TU is now as political as it gets. There name should be changed.

Merc

12

DG,

I am not the best to answer your questions but here it is in a nutshell. The money is for three things. Stocking, Stream Improvment and Enforcement. Not in that order. First up would be studies that could be paid for with the funds. We need to figure out how to eventually narrow the channel so under low flow conditions, we can enhance flow. Secondly, act on those independant studies systematically to increase flow and reduce silt under the lower BOR flow conditions.

We must continue to stock the river responsibly since the Rainbows do not spawn there. The brown trout are reproducing and doing great. When you stock the river responsibly, you must enforce the regulations. Right now there is limited at best enforcement and nothing full time. A full time Game Warden would be nothing short of an improvement over current conditions and benefit the river long term. Notice twice in this response I mentioned long term. That is the key perspective in our opinion.

I hope that helped.

Merc

13

Thanks for the information.

14

That?s just why I have not rejoined TU in years. I now support by other means (organizations, clubs, groups) to help our great river systems. Even our local TU seams to shun bait, and hardware fishermen. TU is not an elitist group of fly fisherman.

15

I support the basic premise of the $10 SJ stamp. However, people should be aware that in this bill NM resident anglers will only pay $5 for that permit, while non-residents will pay $10. Since 70-80% of anglers on the SJ are non-residents, this shifts over 90% of the burden for these state taxes to non-residents of NM who only fish the SJ once or twice per year MAX, while the residents who fish it regularly and in many cases make their living from the river pay less than 10% of the costs. Pretty good plan if you’re a member of the SJF, which is made up overwhelmingly of guides, outfitters and local business owners along the river.

Secondly, I seriously question the whole concept of channelizing the upper section (the only way to “narrow the stream to increase flow” in an attempt to reduce sedimentation). The net effect will be to dump all the silt into the Texas Hole where the water slows down and to reduce the DO content…which is going to happen in summer when flows are reduced as far as they will be. That water flowing over all that gravel below the dam now acts as a filter and oxygenator. And that makes for better trout water. So I have some serious concerns with that plan.

Furthermore, if “browns are reproducing and doing fine,” why aren’t we transitioning to a stocking program and slot limit system that manages the tailwater to enhance what nature is already providing? Why aren’t we moving away from rainbows and toward browns? In fact, why does NM seem to want to kill browns and stock trout that can’t survive in NM anymore due to all the changes in the ecosystems throughout the state? The answer is $$$…out of state $$$ instead of NM $$$. But this is why TU won’t help the SJ. TU supports naturally reproducing trout habitat, and actually opposes stocking programs detrimental to naturally reproducing trout populations that might become sustainable fisheries if they were managed properly. TU tries to let their policy be driven by science, not by $$$. (I said tries). NM fisheries policy is mostly driven by politics, not by science.

As I said in the beginning, I support this stamp idea. But I do not support this legislation in its current form. Make the stamp fee the same for residents and non-residents and I’ll support it.

16

Well now flyguy66 I will bet my bottom dollar you are in bed with andy novak and his group.
This has been their bleeting reply from the start of this.
did you know the stamp was actually the CCSJ idea?

In relpy to your statement about the membership of the San Juan River Foundation. yes, we have 5 members that are guides and well over 4,300 who are not. get your facts straight.

This is a TAILWATER! very little reproduction happens here. get your facts straight.

Now as far as TU goes. they have NEVER supported the san juan in any way because it is a TAILWATER!
the largest flyfishing group in New Mexico (NMtrout) quit TU because they would not help with the san juan back in the early 80’s
TU will fight this bill because they belive that it will take money away from their projects.
Funny
In the last ten years NMF&G has spent in excess of $1,000,000.00 for TU projects in the state of New Mexico. Most of which the average fisherman can not fish, but are paying for anyway.
The san juan sells over a third of all fishing licenses in the state of New Mexico. NMF&G has spent less than $100,000.00 in the last ten years on the san juan.
Seems a bit lopsided.
get your facts straight.

Now as far as the restoration plan, the san juan has a very high DO content coming OUT OF THE LAKE! there is very little gravel left in the first mile downstream from the dam, if fact one of the projects will be to regravel the upper river.
There is a plan in place here. a plan that 99.9% of fisherman support

TU New mexico, New Mexico wildlife, Andy Novack’s gang of five and their puppetmaster Oscar Simpson from the National Wildlife Foundation don’t give a hoot about the san juan, they never have.

In fact name me ONE thing this group has done to help the san juan.

Get your facts straight.

17

Bubba,

I didn’t attack you or your effort here. And I don’t appreciate your tone. I’m sure others don’t either. I am not on anyone’s side here. I am a professional outdoor writer who believes strongly in an informed public. You came here and asked for support on a political issue of contention in NM. You say 99.9% of fishermen and all that sort of stuff, but it isn’t that simple and you know it. You are twisting and misrepresenting facts and trying to intimidate, which is typical of how you operate. And, yes, now I’m calling you out because you started it. So calm down and behave like a gentleman and an intellectual and I will too. And we can have a civil and rational discussion of an issue we both support.

I have spent many years fishing and studying and working conservation on tailwaters. And I have no idea who this Andy fella is, let alone am I in league with anyone or any group. Everything is not a conspiracy and everyone doesn’t have an agenda. NM politics has gotten so caustic that most folks have lost their common sense…not to mention their common sense of decency!

Trout reproduce just fine in tailwaters…especially brown trout. I give you the White River in Arkansas…a river system TU just jumped square in the middle of a major undertaking with over $1 million to help clean up after a developer dumped tons of silt into the Norfork tailwater section.

Wait until the flow drops to the mandated 250 cfs, Bubba. You’ll see what happens to the DO. And as the lake ages, you’ll see it deteriorate even further. Again: science.

So your plan calls for adding gravel AND channelizing? I don’t understand.

I am not joining the fight you want to pick about TU vs. the San Juan. I simply tried to explain the TU policy that led to the fight. Frankly, I’m not a big fan of TU’s policy positions in many ways, either. You’ve misread me pretty badly.

I said I won’t support this bill unless the permit fee is flattened to $10 for residents and non-residents. I said I support the permit…just not a different rate for residents and non-residents. Get it? I just want anglers treated equally, Bubba. You have a problem with that?

18

FG66
I am sorry for the tone of how I wrote this. However, if you had any idea of how much carbage has been heap up on us for trying to make a diffrence here it would shock you.
And I just spent a week in Santa Fe dealing with all of this, so I am a bit on edge so to speak.
And no twisting the facts is NOT how I operate.

Understand that the foundation was founded only to help raise funds for the san juan.
We stepped into this fight after seeing all of the nonsence that was being generated by the some of these groups. Radio ads telling the listeners that the san juan was a dead river, newspaper stories that were written about how the river was dead and out right lies spoken to us by the leaders of these groups.

Ten years age we asked for TU’s help here with the BOR’s flow change, we were told they would not help. Historically they have done nothing.
Yes brown trout reproduce well in some tailwaters, they do ok in the san juan but nowhere near as well as the white.

We are well aware of what a 250cfs flow will do to the san juan.
Getting the BOR to release more water for higher flows is just not going to happen. We have from the begining stated we need to look long term on what kind of work is done in stream, taking into account a 250cfs which will happen at some point.
There well not be any channels in this work. instream rock work, etc. is what is planned. But again untill an indepth study is done this is all just ideas.

The final cost of a stamp will be set by NMF&G. I belive if you read the wording it says up to $10.00 for out of state.
And yes we would like to see a flat rate of $3.00 dollars for everyone.

As a writer you might want to dig into this story, very interesting.

Again sorry for the tone of the post.

19

Thanks for the apology, Bubba. I’m all for any and all truly beneficial conservation and fisheries improvement effort in New Mexico. Living in El Paso, I am closer to every fishery in New Mexico than I am to any decent fishery in Texas. And I’ve been fishing New Mexico and southern Colorado since I was 12…I’m 43. If y’all support a flat fee then we’re definitely on the same side! But I don’t think $3 is enough. I like a number like $6 or $7. And I’d like see a long-term sunset as is currently in the legislation, not like TU is lobbying for. Why do they even care? (rhetorical question)

My comments about brown trout vs. other species really was more of a critique of overall NMG&F policy statewide and not just regarding the SJ, although it is a question worth raising. Browns are much heartier fish than Rainbows and Cutthroats. They just aren’t as economical as hatchery fish. That’s why gov’t agencies stock so many bows. And the Cutts are stocked and Browns (and Bows) killed because federal $$$ can be secured for “native restoration” projects…even when they make no sense based on good science. Just because something once lived somewhere doesn’t mean it still can thrive there. Dinosaurs used to roam this land. So did buffalo, wooly mammoths, and the majority of this continent’s human inhabitants were nomads. The buffalo and nomads have barely survived and could never be restored to their former numbers due to changes in habitat that cannot be reversed. The rest are gone due to climate change. We have less water and warmer water in the southern Rockies these days as compared to just 50 years ago, let alone 100 years ago or more. That’s my sermon on the Rio Grande Cutthroat Restoration Project. They should be conserved and rejuvenated where it makes good sense and we’re building on what Mother Nature can still support. But wiping out good, sustainable fisheries for questionable experiments that at best will result in a few tiny Rios up in the highest headwaters is ridiculous.

Similarly, all silt in the SJ isn’t a bad thing. Some silt is good. Slow water with silty bottoms is where many of those midges come from. There are also some HUGE mayfly species whose larva rest in silty bottoms. Maybe importing some of those should be looked into? Biomass is the key to carrying capacity and CC is the key to fish size and #'s. Too much silt is a problem, of course. But let’s keep in mind that all rivers change constantly. No river stays the same. And lakes age and have a life cycle. So the tailraces below them change as the lake ages. Look at Elephant Butte.

In contrast, NMG&F and the feds (and the various conservation orgs that pitched in) have done a fabulous job with the Gila Trout Restoration Project! Why? Relatively unchanged ecosystem and a very hearty trout species. Mother Nature still had a lot to work with, and man was able to just help by doing some things smarter than we had been doing them. That’s good conservation and restoration work!

The SJ deserves more attention than it has gotten from Santa Fe until very recently. Unfortunately, Santa Fe is locked in a totally dysfunctional budget battle that has consumed the entire state government and political discourse. I don’t envy any of y’all who are spending time up there trying to have sensible discussions with any of those people nowadays. But my wife is fond of an old German proverb she learned as a girl growing up in Bavaria:

While two big dogs fight, the little third one steals the bone.

There are a lot of folks both in and out of New Mexico who really love the SJ. And TU doesn’t control every dollar in the fly fishing or fisheries conservation universe. A good plan is a good plan and good cause is a good cause. Even in these tough times, the best ideas presented in the most reasonable and mature ways will rise to the top. Don’t let that SF junk rub off on you and taint the cause you’re working for. These flow reductions…and you’re right about them being inevitable…are going to be a big deal to the SJ and the fishing there. Adjustments need to be made now or folks are going to wish they had been.

FYI, I don’t even fish the SJ anymore. So I don’t really have a personal stake in this whole thing. But I care about what other fly anglers care about. I have a stake in that. And I wish y’all the best in making a positive difference in the future of trout fishing on the SJ before it turns into a carp fishery.

20

Everyone,

I have been asked to post this response that will appear in several media outlets in New Mexico. It is both an interesting and comprehensive response to those who continue to fight this stamp. Thanks.

Merc

During this session, our legislative representatives in Santa Fe have a tremendous opportunity to further secure one of the gems in the tourism crown of New Mexico. The Quality Waters of the San Juan River below Navajo Dam is unquestionably a treasure for all of us in New Mexico and moreover it is well-known around the world as a premier trout fishery.

Introduced by Representative Tom Taylor, HB 51 sometimes referred to as ?San Juan River Stamp?, moved out of the Consumer & Public Affairs Committee with a 7-0 Do Pass and now is in the Energy & Natural Resources Committee for consideration and then hopefully a vote to go to the floor.* There is tremendous support for securing funding for these trophy waters while not asking the taxpayers for a dime of funding. That?s right. This funding which could generate nearly two million dollars over its proposed life of ten years will neither affect the state?s budget nor burden anyone who does not choose to fish the Quality Waters of the San Juan River. Only anglers fishing these special waters will be required to purchase a ?permit? of a few dollars annually. Monies collected, and this is the important part, are to be used for action ? not dilatory studies and group think. The New Mexico Department of Game and Fish would have much needed funds for habitat improvement, a comprehensive fish stocking program, river bank enhancements, and access upgrades.
Sadly, there are some who wish to use the river?s fame for political purpose and national intrusions. This is of course New Mexico?s contribution to the world of fly-fishing and needs to be treated with a level of respect and consideration afforded to other famous fisheries. Why would anyone want to drag their feet and circumvent New Mexico solutions? It should be noted we are getting strong opposition from Greg McReynolds the TU National Rep in ABQ, NM. He has been making some very damning accusation in regards to NM Game & Fish Department, referencing a bad job or ineffective work on habitat improvement projects already completed on the river, with no facts or studies to back the negative remarks.We have reports from Guides and private anglers alike that are raving about the new structure on the waters below Simon Canyon. This area was hardly fished just a few years ago and now is one of the ?Dry Fly? hot spots on the river, with fish holding behind almost every rock. Even sadder McReynolds has made a personal attack on Marc Wethington, (State Fisheries Biologist) who is one of the hardest working individuals I know, whose knowledge of our river is intimate and who truly cares about the river?s health and success. We have been told McReynolds has asked the Trouches Trout Unlimited Chapter in NM to not support the Stamp. It is our understanding at this point Trouches TU will not put in against the Stamp but remain neutral on the issue. McReynolds activity is very frustrating. Just 10 year ago when we asked for their help regarding the San Juan River EIS and BOR re-operation of Navajo Dam an action that may have brought flows down to dangerous levels for the trout - they said could not help us because the San Juan is a Tailwater and they wanted all dams off rivers. For a national fly fishing organization to have an agent working against a fishery of such prominence as the San Juan boggles the mind. It has also been suggested by some that the guides and outfitters on the San Juan River should pay, not the anglers? These organizations already pay the highest concession fees in the State that would be 100% more than any other water with commercial permits available. This Stamp could provide very important funding to keep the San Juan one of our nation?s fly fishing jewels of the west. Without this Stamp we are basically back to $0 revenues for the Juan and back to square one!*
Are there other issues facing the San Juan River?s trout waters? Yes. Will HB 51 solve all problems? No. However, not passing HB 51 will indeed delay action and prolong the inevitable - more bickering and agitation from politically minded individuals like Oscar Simpson of the NM Wildlife Federation and groups who could care less about the San Juan River but whose sights and real goals are set upon attacking a variety of ?enemies? such as BLM, BOR, the oil and gas industries and whomever else might have deep pockets for picking thus allowing the trout habitat and river to suffer while they complete their agendas.

There is of course more good than bad in this fight to protect the San Juan River?s trout. I would like to report that the San Juan River Guides Association is in full support of HB 51. Our association is made up of the river?s local guides and outfitters and a host of businesses such as lodges, motels, camps and RV sites that are economically tied to the success of the river?s fishery tourism. Further support across our state includes New Mexico Trout, the largest fly fishing membership group in New Mexico; San Juan River Foundation, a dedicated group seeking funding for the river; The NM Department of Game and Fish; The New Mexico Game Commission; across the aisle support in the Roundhouse; the Governor himself, who has landed a few trophy trout in his day; Farmington Convention and Visitor?s Bureau plus hundreds of fly fishers across our state as well as outside our state.

I strongly urge the good men and woman of our legislature to give HB 51 a Do Pass in committee and a Yes vote of passage on the floor to secure this immaculate gem of New Mexico.

Larry Johnson: Secretary/Treasurer San Juan River Guide Association,
Owner Soaring Eagle Lodge