Sales tax stupidity

Article 1, Section 8 of the Us Constitution reads:

Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;–And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

This section provides that the states and not the federal government can decide to impose a personal income tax and how much to impose. This section allows the Federal Government to impose excise taxes and other imposts. I did not give the Federal Government the right to impose personal income taxes but did give that right to the states so long as the states used current census numbers to insure fair taxation.

In 1913 the 16th Amendment was ratified thus allowing the Federal government to throw out the Pollock decision. Here is some information on the 16th Amendment ratified 03-FEB-1913:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The 16th Amendment:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

We are supposed to be confused. That makes it much easier for our government, or any government for that matter, to control us. The intent of the founding father’s is clear int their personal diaries. They had no intention of allowing the Federal Government to tax the common man’s income. They gave that authority to the states, as part of states rights, and all states would then pay an equal portion to the Federal Government for cost of operation of the nation. That is precisely one of the very big re4asons that the southern states seceded and we fought the Civil War. The Federal Government was threatening back then to take the authority of taxation away from the state that is supposed to be your domain. General Kemper said it so well that “The Government of Virginia is Virginia not some federal Government in Washington”. Not an exact quote.

Eric -

The Constitution provides for an amendment process. As you noted, the Sixteenth Amendment provides -

"Amendment XVI

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

The Constitution does not provide for the personal diaries of the “founding fathers” to control the progress of the Constitution over the years through the amendment process.

Thanks for your reponse.

John

John,
I live in the land of the constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Continental Army, the Colonial Congress and it’s seat of Philadelphia and York. These men did not just stumble through the process blindly and they did not, nor did I infer that they did, use their personal diaries to make law. However, if you want to know the thoughts and emotions that shaped their intent, thoughts and action, and therefore the Constitution, read their diaries, letters and other writings. That will give you the insight into why they wrote the Constitution the way they did. I warn you all that this is a lifetime endeavor. Remember that the Constitution is to be interpreted literally, not liberally. The Congress is made up of people with all of their human faults and inadequacies.:slight_smile:

I say we just put machines in Congress and get rid of the inadequate, bumbling fools that we are allowing to take this country apart one brick at a time. Program the machine to do as it is told, and will sit there and do that day after day. But, as long as there are lazy, worthless constituents who benefit from the give-away programs our representatives created to insure a pool of shoo-in votes every term they come up for reelection, and undereducated voters who are naive enough to believe the words of any politician, we will have to endure these thieves.

Keep in mind that you allow this to perpetuate every time your representatives come up for reelection. What are you doing about it?

WAKE UP AMERICA!

Joe -

By way of example, what are YOU doing about it ??

John

Joe,
I disagree.
I believe we need a human, to use human judgment, to ensure human interests. Not a machine adding up columns of numbers and statistics.
A machine, working under the parameters you describe, would require someone to tell it WHAT to do. A Committee? A… Congress? Who tells them what we want done?
Supposedly, we tell our elected representatives what we want with our votes. And if they don’t, we tell them to leave. All 21? percent of us.
My main concern/worry/disgruntlement is the class of people we have created who are interested in running for public office. We hold them to so high a standard, that anyone who would be capable of executing whatever office, is not willing to undergo the scrutiny that will be placed on them.
We don’t need perfect people running our cities, states, countries. I personally want someone who is able to withstand a little adversity without collapsing. Abe Lincoln, who is considered to be one of our greatest Presidents, failed at numerous endeavors before being elected to Congress and the Presidency. Have you noticed that the Presidents that are considered “Great”, are those who served in times of trouble? Washington, Lincoln, FDR.
In large part, I blame the media for our political atmosphere. They are no longer reporting news, so much as deciding what is news based on what will sell advertising space. The more sordid the better. Political news should be decided on how it effects the constituency, not the politician. Take Slick Willy as an example. His peccadilloes, while reprehensible on a personal level, really had no bearing on his execution of his office as President, until the Media made it a big deal to the point that he ended up in front of a Congressional Committee. Don’t misunderstand me, I think he misused the power of his position, and I was not a fan of his politics.
I guess the bottom line of this little diatribe, is that the media is doing more to decide who gets elected than the citizens.

But that’s just my opinion.

And I could be wrong.

Kirk

JC, et al, if this violates the forum commandments, feel free to send it to the trash heap. (Which might be where it belongs, anyway.)

KB

Shakespear (and Don Henley) was right: Shoot all of the lawyers.

Joe,
I agree with you. Here is what I do for this nation everyday:

I serve my nation everyday. My day starts at 3:30am and ends at 5:30-
6:00 p.m. I work in the main distribution center for D.o.D. at which we are prime target for Al-Qaeda. I work in warehouses that are hot in the summer, cold in the winter, noisy, dirty, poorly lit, damp and a good portion of them were built during W.W.I. I am not being shot at but I run a security gauntlet everyday, several times a day, that would probably irritate all of you but I am thankful it is there. I receive, stow, inspect, pick, pack, consolidate, load trucks and do all of the things necessary to get the freight to America’s Warfighter around the world, on time, in new or like new condition and within the budget set by my Congress. I operate very heavy equipment while lifting very heavy weights in a very cramped facility and, as part of our team, do it in a manner that is as safe as we flawed humans can be. I can and do routinely lift and or move weights in excess of my body weight in order to expedite service to our Warfighter.

I took the same oath for this duty of mine that I took as a soldier of this nation. I work side by side with Veterans and Civilians from all of the free nations of the world. There is every likelihood that I have met some of the representatives from all of the states that most of the “Voting” public never meets. I have given up my free time, holidays and vacations both voluntarily and mandatory as well as traveling on roads that are in such bad condition they are closed to the public.

I too am an imperfect and flawed human servant of: First our military and always second you and me, the public. Just like our representatives in congress. I may not, indeed am not required to, like them personally however, I respect their position. Period. You could, like you said about the people in congress, replace me with a machine but that machine will accidentally charge you, the public, a 200% overcharge on freight and not give a hoot. I sometimes wonder why I care because the public really doesn’t care. I have brought it up to several members of the public because it is an ongoing issue they need to take to their congressional representative and all I get is the “deer in the headlights” look. I will bring it up no more as it is obvious to me that the only people the American public cares about is themselves and they either lack the courage to act for the better good of our nation or, as I suspect, falsely perceive that it’s not happening to them so they do not care.

I walk the streets of my town several times a week. I get out and meet my neighbors, law enforcement and local politicians. I hunt and fish with them too. I used to sell them their fuel and food everyday. I enlighten myself on the current affairs of our nation that are up for vote and I vote in every election no matter how big or small. I am registered with one party but do not adhere to voting party lines. I vote for the person that I believe is best for the job regardless of party affiliation. Period.

The only thing I would add to Joe’s question is this: As Americans all of us are obligated to serve this nation everyday of our lives so:
[u][i][b]What have you done for your country today?

Realize that everyone’s job, big or small, is vital to our nation.
[/b][/i][/u]

Before I sign off for the night I have to say that I believe this nation is in the best of hands with all of you on this board. I do not doubt the loyalty and patriotism of you folks, just some other Americans. Hope I did not offend anyone and Marco, sorry I high jacked your post. Thanks for letting me vent folks. You are all the best!:smiley:

Eric;
I commend you for your undying commitment to this great country. I have never served in the military. But when CITIZENS (continually) complain, I always ask if they voted, and to no surprise, (OH was that TODAY?) And I do agree that the media runs this country. There was more news about steroids in sports this year than our families ( in harms way) I for one am so appalled at the oil CRISIS ???, or who we HAVE to vote for. There is no wonder why people just don’t vote

I now believe totally in the theory of evolution. To wit, this thread :slight_smile:

Mark
PS: And as an afterthought, if we evolved from apes, how come there are still apes?

You have to have something to start the next round with!:smiley:

Kirk

I guess you’re going to have to wait till you can ask Charlton.:wink:

Shhhhhhh!!! Oregon has enough people, and did I mention that there aren’t any fish here?
Gary

used to be(late 80’s) 19% here when the feds first brought in the GST 7% ontop of the 12% provincal taxes…its down to 13%.