Recent posts on how a Catskill dry floats on the water reminded me of a picture I have had for many years. A RW is not a Catskill pattern but the proportions of the dly in the picture is that of my understanding of a Catskill pattern, Tail is shank length. Hackle is 11/4 to 11/2 hook gape.
Art Flick in his Master fly tying Guide describes how the dry should float. "When the fly hits the water the point of the hook acts as a keel and the fly will ride on the tail and hackle with the keel
just on the water.If the tail is too short, the fly will sink tail first. If the wing is too far forward the fly will land on its eye. If its wing is too long, the fly will lie on its side.
The picture of the Royal Wullf in this Scientific Angler Ad is floating as described by Flick. In my experience, the fly, if properly tied will float in this manner. How long it will float in this manner is dependant on the roughness of the water and how much water is soaked up by the fly.
That fly may be supported by cellophane underneath. It’s been done before in ads (it may have been this ad, I just don’t remember).
That’s reminiscent of the old Dan Bailey catalog photo, in which the fly was not really floating as it appeared to be.
As I recall, the Royal Wulff was placed on oil for that photo. That’s what allowed it to appear as it did on the cover of the Dan Bailey catalog.
That could be. I think I heard it was a very thin layer on top of a mirror and not the fly was not really floating.
Jay,
Maybe both? Oil on mirror?
I remember that old Dan Bailey catalog but I never heard that it was faked. Maybe it islaying on cellophane or a mirror or oil. I’m not sure the Scientific Angler photo is the same as the Dan Bailey pic. My question is why would Dan Bailey and Scientific Angler go to the trouble to make the fly appear to be floating as it shows unless they, and a large number of well known fly tyers and fly fisherman believed that it should?
“Catskill dries do ride belly-in-the-film. Just realize that to state that publicly to lovers of the form is akin to throwing stones at the church.” - Eric Peper, 3/5/09, Classic Fly Rod Forum.
Sometimes somebody says something, and it gets repeated ad infinitum until it becomes accepted as fact. I have to ask myself, “Dan Bailey couldn’t find one fly in the thousands and thousands on hand that floated ‘right?’”
Btw, I was thinking of an ad that was fairly recent - like last five years or so.
oldster,
“why would Dan Bailey and Scientific Angler go to the trouble to make the fly appear to be floating as it shows unless they, and a large number of well known fly tyers and fly fisherman believed that it should?”
Perhaps because the Royal Wulff is such an iconic fly pattern, is just good looking (to fly fishers and apparently fish too), the photo represents what a dry fly should look like on the water surface, and the reflection is just so artistic. All in all, the photo draws you in and, at least to me, that fly represents an era and an important individual (Lee Wulff) in fly fishing history.
Maybe It is the sort of epoxy model railroaders use to mimic water on their layouts. That might explain why the hook bend sinks in but the tail barbs have wicked up material.
But that’s just my own speculation.
Ed
Gentlemen, I’ve fished a lot of Catskill type drys and in looking at them on the water, they appeared to me to float high at first and as they got wetter the would float like a thorax pattern. I never got close enough enough to see exactly how they were floating This was in my younger years when my eyes were better. After reading all you guys input i decide to conduct an experiment. This morning i broke out some of my Lt Cahills, size 14 tied in my version of the Catskill style. I dropped them in a clear jar full of water. They floated with the body clear of the water. They did not float as high as the Dan Bailey photo, most of the tail was flat on the water, probably not stiff enough but they sat up on their hackles supporting the body clear of the water. The hook dented the water but did not penetrate it. I realize that this was not a very scientific test. The water was perfectly flat and the flies were dropped from a couple of inches. To be truthful, I was a little surprised. This leads me to believe that they will float as described by Art Flick but not for long.
Oldster,
When you say “Catskill Style”, how do you define that?
What proportions do you use in tying these?
Thanks
If I remember correctly Flick argued with Cross about the setting of the tail. The Cross tail was upswept and Flick believed that would make it impossible for the fly to land correctly (e.g. on its tippy-toes). I also find it implausilbe that a size 12 dry would land as Flick envisioned with basically only 5 1/2 wraps of hackle and most certainly not after the first cast.
I think Catskill’s and modern upwings do ride higher than parachutes, Comparaduns etc. The body of a Catskill is supported on top of the meniscus by the horizontal hackles and the hackles pointed slightly downards. With a parachute, the body is in the meniscus with the hackle resting on top of the meniscus. I guess Comparaduns could go either way based on the degree of wingspread.
Byron, I use shank length tail and wing, 11/4 to 11/2 hackle. This should yield a wing slightly longer than the hackle. Maybe some of the old tiers did use slightly different proportions. Good hackles were scarce in those days. It took two hackles to hackle a fly as you know. Hook length proportions and 11/2 gape hackles result in a larger fly. Probally turning my 14 into a 12. What proportions do you use and why?
Steven Mike and others, Thank you for your input. I value your opinions and comments and have learned from this discussions. As long as we all catch fish with our creations we should be happy.
Regards, Oldster
Exactly. Well said.
Joe
Oldster,
I also use shank length for tail and wings. I select hackle which is approximately 75% of wing height.
I don’t use many divided upright winged flies anymore. I have found the cripple patterns, to include the Sparkle Dun, work better.
Byron, I always admire your flies. Mine have always looked like cripples! Regards