Hi all,
I posted a question earlier about vise recommendations but now I have a more basic question. What is the advantage of a rotary vise? On what type of fly will I need that feature? What is the alternative to not have that feature?
Thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,
I am new to fly tying. I had the opportunity to get a rotary vise from one of the members here on FAOL. As a new tyer, th erotary allows me to see all angles of the fly as I apply materials. I don’t have the skills to be able to place materials on the opposite side of the hook and know they are place correctly. Same with the bottom.
I have began to play around a little using it to rotate threads and a few other materials on the hook shank.
I know I can’t give you first hand advise on what all an in-line rotary will do, but it certainly has been beneficial to me as a beginner.
Good Luck and best wishes
I use the rotary feature of my vise to tie all of my flies. Material placement is much easier with the roatary, as you can see the material as it goes on all parts of the hook shank. There is no longer a back or bottom that you can’t see. Wrapping hackle or other material is simply a matter of holding the material and turning the hook.
Having tied on a non-rotary vise for years, when I made the switch my tying improved, as did the speed at which I could tie a better fly.
REE
It is seldom spelled out, but one of the main advantages is consistent tension of material and lack of interruption in material handling. When using a stationary vise, the thread is usually left hanging ahead of the wraps to be done, in preparation for tying-off. Thus one hand moves the materials over the fly, around the back and under the hook shank where the other hand grasps the materials, moving them to the front/top of the hook for transfer to the first hand to repeat the process. At a minimum the material changes hands once per revolution, and usual twice - all the time dodging the thread. So there are several opportunities (like 6 to 12) on a fly body or hackle wrap for a loss of tension, for twisting of material, or breakage, through each transfer from hand to hand. This seldom happens with a rotary vise. With a rotary, the material is held in one (dominant) hand - usually the right, with consistent tension and angle of application, while the other hand rotates the vise. Yes you put the material on in even wraps since you see all sides of the fly the same, but more importantly to me is the consistency and speed of wraps of anything you wrap on the hook, from chenille to dry fly hackle.
Thanks for all the advice guys…That was informative
Mike:
IF you can, try tying a simple fly like a Woolly Bugger on both a fixed AND rotary vise. Since both types of vises have their fans; there are reasons why some prefer one over the other.
Trying one will help you decide if you need a rotary, AND it isn’t just the turning thing. The hand position for a standard vise is WAY different than a rotary. It was one of the things I had the hardest time getting used to.
The real advantage of a true rotary is the ability to wrap materials or hackle IN-LINE on the center of the hook axis. If you just want to inspect the far side of the fly, many regular vises have a head that revolves that will allow you to look at a fly from all angles.
As a matter of fact, even WITHOUT a true center-line axis rotary, you can wrap materials by turning the head of many non-rotary vises. It doesn’t work as well or as easily but it does work.
Try both if you can.
I tied with a stationary vise for over a year before I got a rotary. Now, tying with a rotary I see what I was missing with the stationary vise. Placement, as mentioned earlier, is much easier. Also, it does increase the speed with which you can tye (not that that matters much, unless you have a limited amount of time alloted… with a five month old baby, my time is pretty limited these days, hahahah).
I got a Renzetti traveler and really like it, but from what I understand the Danvise is every bit as good and 1/2 the price. I just couldn’t find one locally and, when I can, I like to support my local fly shop.
My 2 cents worth.
Before starting let me define a few terms. I see vises fitting in three general categories. The first are those with fixed jaws in which the hook remains in a stationary position once clamped in the jaws. The second category is called ?rotary? for lack of a better term. The jaws can be rotated allowing the tier to view and have access to all sides of the fly. In appearance most of these vises resemble the fixed jaw vises. The third category is the ?true rotary? where the hook is mounted with the shank on the centerline of rotation and material can be applied to it by rotating the jaws/hook.
True rotarys have their advantages and their disadvantages. Let me start
with what I see as advantages. If you are tying large flies especially
on long shank hooks they can speed up the winding of body materials and
palmering of hackle. If you tie mostly Woolly Buggers, steelhead and saltwater patterns then the true rotarys have an advantage. They are also useful when spinning dubbing on the thread. However, I do not see this as a large plus if one is proficient with the various dubbing techniques, unless one is applying copious amounts of dubbing . Another advantage over the fixed vise is that you can view the fly from all sides as you tie it. But the regular rotary vises also allow you to rotate the jaws for this purpose.
Now for the disadvantages. Generally the true rotary vises will cost a bit
more than a fixed or plain rotary vise of the same quality. In my opinion the smaller the fly the less advantage the true rotary may have. The rotary feature is of no value when tying in tails and wings, or whip finishing heads. If fact rotary tying does not facilitate the tying in or tying off of any material. However, my biggest complaint against every true rotary that I’ve seen is one of ergonomics. A lot of “vise hardware” in the form of bent arms, shaft bushings, etc. are placed directly behind the hook in order to place the hook shank on the axis of rotation. This forces the left hand to assume an awkward angle when applying materials. This may not seem like a “big deal”, but in order to work around the bent arms and clamping devices, one must often rotate the left hand clockwise to the extent that it requires elevating the left elbow. If you are tying a lot of flies it is tiring, and if just a few flies, just an unnecessary pain. The second largest disadvantage I see is the managing the length of thread outside the bobbin when doing true rotary tying… This is always a time consuming problem if one uses standard bobbins. You must pull out a length of thread to hang the bobbin over the bobbin hanger and then you must rewind it back on the bobbin before tying down or tying off more material. Nor-Vise makes a self winding bobbin that solves this problem. The cost is about $35. I highly recommend this bobbin if you go the rotary route as they really make the rotarys much easier to use.
Those that use and love their true rotarys may want to take me to task. I am not trying to put down your vise of choice. You paid for it, you love it, and for that I am glad. I wish you years of happy tying with what ever vise you may have.
Jim…I like your comments…
I am still a beginner…Ok I have never tied a single fly. I do plan on going through the FAOL fly tying pages step by step once I get a vise however.
Do people here think as a beginner it is to my advantage to start with a stationary vise and then upgrade if I see the need for a rotary in the future. Flies that currently interst me are soft hackles and a unique fly I read about in a Rich Osthoff book called a soft hackle wooley worm.
for reference the vises in my budget I am considering are in the following post.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14133
Coltranen
I paid over $165 for my first non rotary vise. First Montana nymph looked great. Took it out of the vise and ugh! The OTHER side of it looked horrible. Had I been turning the fly in a complete circle I would have seen the bad side and made the correction in the process of tying the fly. Not after it was all done and head cement applied.
Do I think you should buy one type of vise…and learn all the hand movements and coordination…then buy a different machine and have to break old hand movement habits and re-train yourself all over again? No. I don’t see much wisdom in that.
Support this board. Go to sponsor BT’s Fly Fishing and buy Al Beatty’s Danvise for $80 and learn to tie rotary in the beginning. Skip the wasted period…you are going to end up with a rotary anyway. Besides, he has video’s on how to tie on the danvise, how to tie rotary style, and all his video’s are done using the Danvise. What more could you want than seeing your own very vise in action in video’s?
I don’t have a Danvise but would not hesitate to recommend or buy one. I have the Montana Mongoose which I like, and got for $157 with no shipping or tax charges. It came with a bobbiin support, bobbin, hackle gauge, hook gauge, boaf c-clamp and pedestal mount, a material clip, and a carrying case, and about 8 different sample packages of fly tying material.
Colt
If you are just starting then I would go the cheap route and just get a stationary vise (heck, I am sure that many of us around here would have one that we could send you if you wanted.) That way you can determine if it is something that you are going to be interested in. I know several folks that thought they wanted to tie, bought a bunch of stuff and then discovered that they didn’t enjoy it. I love my rotary, but as noted by several folks, they can get pricey.
with plenty of opinions and anwers is http://flyfisherman.com/ftb/hwvise/
I learned to tie on a stationary vice and I’m glad I did If only for the reason that I can appreciate the features of a true Rotary when I do get one. My first vice was a Thompson A and I tied thousands of flies on that vice over the years. In the beginning my flies looked like crap as I’m sure they would have if I had been tying them on a $600 true rotary vice. Over time my skills improved as did the flies but the vice remained the same. In my opinion a person who has tied on a stationary vice for awhile can wrap floss, chenille, dubbing whatever just as well as a person using a true rotary vice; maybe not as fast but just as pretty.
I’ve also noticed that a whole lot of fly shop owners/employees tie on Regal vices (a stationary or in some models a “rotary vice”). And their flies have to look good or they won’t be able to sell them.
All that being said I’m expecting my first true rotary vice in the mail tomorrow :lol: The Thompson vice will be handed down to my 6 yr old daughter who started tying flies with me a couple of months ago :shock:
Mosca Seca…that is great getting your daughter interested early…My 4 year old just discovered the flies I have this past week. We were looking for my one of my practice flies…yellow gaudy with the hook tip removed…I cast it in a tree…oops…When she found it she was very interested in learning what it was for. A good sign for things to come…She already likes going spin fishing with me.
Mosca seca Dont judge a vise by what the fly shop owners/employees are tying on—their trying to sell you the more expensive to make money. I know one that ties on a gear driven that cost over $600. I can do the same onn a Griffin 2A for $50
I’d agree with ya WF, skill is way more important than the price of the tool. I just received the Dyna King Barracuda trekker and already tied my first fly on it. I chose a bugger so I could fully use the true rotary features of the vice. Having tied on a stationary vice for so long I found it a little weird spinning the jaws to wrap materials. I’ll get used to it I guess. One thing I did notice is that it is impossible to sweep/fold back hackle with my left hand if I’m using that hand to spin the jaws.
Coltranem all the pretty feathers and colors used in fly tying are what got my daughter involved. A natural response I guess, for a girl. She seems to have a natural talent for it and her first flies look way better than my first ones did :shock: It’s a cool way for us to spend quality time together on Saturday mornings. 
Well the deceision was made by fate…I chose a Griffin 2A vise. I was browsing Ebay the other day and I found a new one (old stock) starting at $20. Came with a Griffin Ceramic Bobbin, Griffin Scissors, Griffin Whip Finish Tool, Bodkin, Hair Evener, Tear Drop Hackle Pliers, bobbin threaders, and a hackle gauge…I won it for $40 including shipping.
Looks like the seller just put another one up on auction for others interested.
That’s a great buy—I teach and have 6 2A’s and if 150 plus kids cant break it no one can. Sixty dollars-twelve more for the bobbin plus every thing else. BILL
I think ya made a wise decision going with the Griffin too. With winter on the way tying flies will be a great way to keep the indoor blues away :lol: Have fun man.