I’ve been fly fishing for 40+years but lay NO claim to being a fly fisherman ( there IS a difference IMHO). Having said that, I am confused about the relation of the two factors stated in my post topic. To wit: If one has a 6wt rod of “slow action”, using a 6wt line in whatever category ( DT,WF,L) , will the rod be able to “load” properly with about 60’ of line extended?. “Slow” action to me is “noodley”. Can a 6wt- full flex “slow” action rod throw that much line of the # specified with any authority? OR, are the higher rated (wt) rods harder to offer in the full spectrum of actions?. In other words, are there 8 wt rods offering “slow” action and does THAT make any sense?
For a given skill level, a fast action rod tends to give most people distance at the cost of accuracy while a slower rod provides accuracy at the cost of distance. However, a good caster can adjust his casting technique to get distance from slow rods and accuracy from fast rods. A lot of it is getting to know the rod and what it needs you to do to get it to perform the way you want it to. A new or different rod may fit your casting style better, but only practice makes you a better caster. By the time you get to 8wt. and up, finesse isn’t as big a part of the equation as power, so most of them tend to be a bit faster than the lower weight rods, even of the same model.
Yes, you can get a slower action 8 weight and we sell many of them, in fact, for steelhead.
You can speed up the action by underlining, putting a 5 weight line on a 6 weight rod. Also, when it comes to lines, know that some manufacturers add extra weight to make you think you’re casting better.
Personally, I like a slower action rod and find them much, much easier to cast and control. As for distance, I think you can punch out 60’+ on a mod/fast rod just as well as on a med/fast rod.
There are “noodle” rods that folks use for very light tippets, but usually are casting them too far. Hope that helps!
I’m no expert, but I have an old glass 8wt that I rebuilt, and it taught me some humbling lessons on slowing down, but it has become a favorite smallmouth rod for me. I can’t cast the same distance that my fast action 8wt allows, but it is wonderfully accurate.
I know some folks have definite preferences for fast, medium or slow. Personally, casting rods is like dancing with women…no two dance alike, but it’s usually worth the time.
I am, perhaps, way off with this. I think that very often the ‘action’ whatever the hell action is, of a guys first rod/rods are what he becomes comfortable with. That may account for one person saying he likes one type of feel/action and another will defend to the death a different feeling rod or rod type. As an example, how often one hears from an old timer, " I don’t like these new, fancy, fast rods. I still like my forty year old glass stick the best."
It may have some tie-in with what we started with and learned on. However, if a guy moved on to other styles/types/actions his taste may continue to change or truly enjoy all actions.
Gentlemen,
Thank you for your very informative replies. What prompted my question is the rod I mentioned in another post where Wright McGill sent me a brand new rod free of charge because they couldn’t match a tip to a butt section I sent them. ( The butt section was 20+years old). The rod they sent me was rated at 6 wt. This rod, in my estimation was a FULL+ flex and in NO way could it possible effectively load the line wt for which it was rated. I’d have to underline it by two or three #ts to fish it.
I do understand I’m talking about a $25 rod BUT I was curious if this occurs in most/all rods that are rated as “slow”, especially in the higher rod weight ratings.
Mark
PS: Oh, and by the way, my preference is “fast” in any weight. I also don’t think I suffer in accuracy ( my opinion of me:)) with that action.
In some cases it may be what you get used to on your first rod, but definitely not always. My first was a medium action rod that I fished for about 5 years and never really cast another rod. I never seemed to really get the hang of it and thought this casting stuff was really difficult. So I decided to take another class (I’d taken one shortly after buying the rod). I used a rod supplied by the class for whatever reason - probably because when I arrived they were already rigged. Anyway, these were faster action rods and I was casting well within minutes. After the break I set up my rod and tried it - no dice - sold it weeks later. Since then I’ve come to prefer more moderately fast rods than really fast, but to this day can barely cast a medium or slow rod. Of course, this is just one person’s experience.
Actually this depends on the rod Of the five 6wt rods that I have, I have no problem carrying 60 feet of a 6wt WF line with two. These are a TFO TiCr and a Sage RPL+, definitely fast action rods. I can pick up and cast 60 feet of line with a Scientific Anglers 6wt kit rod that I have too. This rod has a moderate action. The two other 6wts are slower action and I find it harder to carry a lot of line with these, but I know a couple of casters who are more skilled than I am and can do so without a problem. I did try a cheap 6wt once that seemed to be significantly overloaded with 50ft of a 6wt.
I am one of those casters who likes all types of rods and am perfectly comfortable with Sage TCR or a bamboo rod, either and both of which I wish I had.
I have no ‘stats’ on the fast/slow vs the accuracy/distance thing. W held a rather controlled accuracy contest in NY a few years back. The guy who won the accuracy [COLOR=Black]contest did it with the fastest rod in the contest.[/COLOR]
Here is where your experiences and preferences make all the difference. If you like fast, this rod would never feel right at its stated line weight, even if the rod is rated accurately which I believe it is.
I fish many rods that are slow to the point where other folks think they are over lined which they are not. I recently hooked a friend up with an older Orvis bamboo, identical to one I own which is rated as a 4wt. He likes it better with a 3wt yet, I use a 4wt on mine and have absolutely no issues equaling and exceeding his casting distance.
I think some rods are built to be overlined (which is, effectively, what you’re doing by carrying 60’ of line.) I got into a … discussion … one time about a 7wt TiCRx I had for a while.
My contention was that this rod was, in every way, an 8wt labled as a fast-action 7wt. Thick butt section, stiff middle, etc. There was no way anyone could ever cast a 185 grain AFTMA 7wt line with this rod. I was mad because I thought I was buying a fast-action 7wt and ended up with a pretty damned fast 8 wt, and I already had one of those.
The other side was that everyone who bought this rod overlined it, so get an 8 or even a 9 wt line and it quit yer bitchin’. I’m thinking, “then why don’t they lable it that way?”
In retrospect, I don’t think either of us were entirely right. TFO doesn’t market the TiCRx as a saltwater rod, but it’s configured like one and I’m sure it would handle a 250 grain shooting head just fine. I imagine I’d have the same complaint about my Loomis CC 6wt if I tried to throw a Cortland Peach with it, but it casts a heavy-headed Rio Outbound 6wt line very nicely.
My experience has also gone along with the fast action rod delivering more distance and the slow action more accuracy. Of course I cut my eye teeth on the slower fiberglass of yesteryear and maybe you could say I’m just more atuned to it. Might also add that my accuracy (or what I consider accurate) is the 25 - 35’ range. The further I stretch out the less accurate I become, regardless of what type rod I’m using! And I’ve found the slower action rod to be more forgiving of my “occasional” sloppy casting, especially with dries and nymphs. But on the other side of the action equation, the fast action rod does much better casting heavier weight.
According to an extremely informative seminar I attended, all fly line is composed of: (1) the tip, (2) the forward taper – leading up to the fat part, (3) the belly – the fat part of the line, (4) the rear taper leading away from the fat part, and (5) the running line.
It was explained that, when casting, the most line that should ever be outside of the rod tip was the rear taper. On a 90’ line that may be only 30’ into the line.
Following their recommendations, I checked every one of my fly lines and marked where the rear taper ended. I then went casting my favorite rods to see if it made a difference.
Casting with no more than the rear taper out of the rod makes casting MUCH easier and I lost no distance. On the other hand, with 60’ of line out of the rod I was fighting the forces of nature and physics was working against me.
On the other hand, with 60’ of line out of the rod I was fighting the forces of nature and physics was working against me.
I too find that after about 40 feet of line out the tip things can go haywire in a flash! … Now I undeatnd why!
Once past the 40 foot mark or so, … I believe that the fly casting Gods look at me as bein’ a bit pretencious and smack me around a bit (or at least send a #4 Bomber slammin’ into the back of my head).
Learn to shoot line, … it’s is MUCH easier on the rotator cuff! (and your ego):rolleyes:
For some time I have felt that folks that teach fly casting should first teach the student the anatomy of fly lines.
My experience was much like CoachBob’s…when I finally got serious about my casting I had one of those DUH moments when I had all the WF section out and into running line…like Chris things went to pot…now I know to stop feeding line and just shoot it.
Sure wish I had been made aware of this in the early day lessons.
If the only thing you want is distance, they by all means, go fast. For me, a fast rod hurts my arm after about an hour of casting. But there aren’t too many conditions under which I’d chose a really fast rod for most of my fishing. And I agree with Jim on the distance records being held with using the fastest sticks.
I guess I am unusual in that I use ONLY Weight Forward and I only use the line that is printed on the side of the rod, except some actually say DT.
I buy a rod because it is slow or medium or fast for different applications, although I am happiest with slow.
I have no problem casting (even ROLL) 60’ of line with any rod (including a 5’3" glass)
You just adjust for the action. Fast is awesome for distance and wind, and BIG BUGS.
Slower action just roll cast so effortless. Like a whip!
As far as that Wright McGill, it is the guide placement and just isn’t going to be a good distance casting rod no matter what line in my opinion.
Not even Sharkskin does it magic on those rods LOL