River Monsters

FAOL Community Sound Off
1

Watched the show River Monsters on Animal Planet last night with that crazy biologist who goes fishing for big and or frightening fish. Last night he was with a guide, fishing the canals around suburban Miami, Fla. for…you guessed it…Snakehead! Some of the local Asian fish dealers apparantly have put some small juvenile and fingerling Snakeheads purchased from someone in New York city, into the canals to grow them out. They then harvest and sell the mature fish as an Asian delicacy that is believed to have healing powers when eaten in a type of soup. Apparantly, many folks are willing to pay Big buks for Snakehead fish. Still it must be cheaper than importing them from Asia.

So here I am thinking, “they already have guides for this ultra-invasive species?” so here is the BIG question:

Has anyone caught one on a fly?

Lets hope you didn’t practise “catch and release!”

aa

2

I hope they arrested those moron fish mongers!

We are supposed to not wear felt and some $#!+head is purposly introducing a dangerous invasive! Why bother worrying about invasives with this nonsense going on??

Unfrikken believable!

3

I like that show! And…Gigmaster fishes for/catches them around Rome, Georgia. I guess he didn’t specifically say he uses fly gear for them…but I assume so?

4

From my understanding of the show, it wasn’t the fish mongers who released the fish, it was those who sell fish to the fish mongers. Whoever is responsible should be hung from a tall tree by their toes. Between the Snakeheads and the Burmese Pythons, Florida will sooon be populated by Asian wildlife.

REE

5

Almost everytime man moves an animal into an area the good Lord did not put them something get out of whack. The python population was caused when Hurricane Andrew released them form importers. The good news is they are now allowing them to be hunted, why there is a season I can’t figure this is one you want to prevent becoming an endangered species. If they create a market for skins, Bubba and his south Florida friends will make python skin boots affordable.

6

The ‘‘why’’ for no season is simple. If there were, idiots would release more of them to continue it. For the same reason only wildlife agents shoot feral hogs here in Kansas. They use shotguns from choppers or light planes. This tends to keep dimwits from trying to establish a popluation.

7

Regards,
Ed

8

They love small streamers, and will attack Woolly Buggers with murdurous abandon.

It’s been my experience that most invasive species eventually become balanced with the habitat, given enough time. And most of the time, removal efforts do more damage to the environment than just letting the problem take care of itself. Personnally, I would love to strap on a helmet, get a baseball bat and a motorboat, and cruise for bighead carp. Full-Contact fishing…what a rush!!!

I like catching Snakeheads. They are delicious. Most of the things we take for granted were invasive species at one time, including ourselves. Cottontail rabbits, Nutria, Kudzu, Brown Trout, Carp, Freshwater Stripers, etc…All were ‘introduced’ species. And even Rainbow trout, bass and crappie have been transplanted well beyond thier natural ranges. African Honeybees, Russian Boars, Peacock Bass , Nile Perch, and more have all managed to carve out a niche for themselves. We’d be better off just finding ways to use the new species, rather than destructive measures, which would most likely be unsuccessfull anyway.

Just my opinion.

9

What have you got against Feral Hogs? They are one of my favorite things to bowhunt here in TN…no season, no limt. And there is nothing like fresh, smoked pork for supper!!! The ‘damage’ they do by digging roots is quickly ‘repaired’ by natural processes, with no lasting effects. They should be hunted just like any other animal, according to normal game laws.

Most of the crop ‘damage’ that Feral Hogs are accused of is from farmers, who have no qualm with doing damage themselves, by dumping insecticides into the water table, wearing out the topsoil, and decimating all wildlife anywhere within range of thier precious crops. Nothing changes and damges the environment more than commerical agriculture. Not even strip-mining and logging. I realize that we need to grow crops, but it needs to be done organically, with as little impact on the environment as possible.

I never thought I would see anyone on this board advocating the use of explosive bait, or munitions to accomplish mindless killing of an otherwise useful species.

10

I saw something a few days ago about the pythons in Florida.

Right now they have to ‘catch’ the things alive and take them to state officials who will kill them.

Nothing was said about what happens to the meat and skins. Maybe the state is trying to keep the snakes from becoming a commercial commodity…not sure that wouldn’t be a good thing, though.

I think that Gigmaster has a point about just letting these ‘invasives’ settle into their niches in their new environs. Sometimes the measures that we try to use to ‘eradicate’ them are much worse than the danger they represent to the status quo. Besides which, so far, nothing we have tried has ever worked on any of this type of problem.

Stuff moves around. We spread things, intentionally or not. Nature kind of works that way. Species evolve and spread to where they can. Whether or not we ‘help’ is kind of beside the point once it’s happened. Sometimes we can look back and wonder why we didn’t see the problem coming before it occurred, but hindsight has always been more prevalent in our species than foresight. It’s pretty clear that we can’t undo it once it’s done.

Dealing with it, establishing game regulations and seasons, ultilizing these things as a new ‘resource’ when possible, all makes some kind of sense to me.

But I’m just by nature and experience against the indiscriminate killing of anything just because it’s inconvenient or not where we want it to be.

Buddy

11

I mean yeah, those trashy brown trout…man, the introduction of those sure hasn’t worked out at all. Heh, heh.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

12

Take care,
Ed

13

Then why all the fuss about mud snails, zebra mussels and Didymo? Who cares, let 'em take over, why bother, hmmmm…sounds like another issue in the forefront of the news.

Seriously, why should we give a rat’s arse about ANY invasive if it does more bad than good trying to stop it and we got lucky with brown trout? Maybe we could even make escargot out of mud snails and veggie burgers out of rock snot?

Is it because snakes, pigs and snakeHEADs don’t impact trout fishing??? Boy if a snakehead or two ended up on some pristine trout stream the TU crowd would be going ballistic over this stuff looking for someone to blame and something to ban.

Hypocrisy runs rampant. It’s no wonder lots of folks could care less about the invasives it’s hip to worry about!

14

I’m thinking I agree with Gigmaster for the most part. Wild hogs are great hunting with the bow, and if you want organic pork???..there you are!

With exotics like the python though that escape? They should be killed and removed as soon as possible to avoid a population establishing. But once that population is established, you really just need to deal with them.

15

EdD

Although you were an Ag major and “aced” swine science, you apparently failed to learn the definition of “feral” as it is typically used today. Current usage of the term clearly precludes “nitwits from releasing feral hogs”. The term feral refers to domestic animals that have either escaped captivity or were released for whatever reason and subsequently became wild. They were not wild, or ‘feral’, at the time of escape , or release.

With respect to the damage they do, lawns and flower beds can be repaired to the extent that within a few weeks one does not see any evidence of their having been there. WAIT! I said lawns and flower beds, NOT farmers crops! There are many residential areas in and around metropolitan Houston, Texas, including where I live, that are overrun with them. The playgrounds at an elementary school in my community are frequently ‘plowed up’ by them, yard’s are invaded and worked over, much to the homeowners dismay. Although my neighbors and I have been spared their onslaught, I am no stranger to the visual impact their feeding activities create. IT AIN"T PRETTY!

With respect to the threat they pose to humans, it is minimal. Dogs pose a much greater threat! We have had numerous individuals killed or mauled by dogs within the metropolitan area over the past ten years. To this day, I have yet to read or hear of a feral hog attacking anyone during this same time period in this same area. This does NOT mean, or imply, that they can’t do serious damage to an individual, or that they shouldn’t be treated for what they are: a wild animal. I too have had personal and up-close encounters with hogs. I have been attacked by a sow with piglets while feeding them (luckily, I managed to avoid her snapping jaws). I was ‘up-front’ in a Bell Jet Ranger helicopter and had a feral boar plant his feet and dare us to touch down; we didn’t as we had a different mission to complete. It should also be noted that feral hogs, at least in our urban area, are primarily nocturnal in their forays into populated areas, lessening the liklihood of a nasty encounter.

It must be remembered that in many areas of this country, our ancestors introduced many of our ‘invaders’ to this country for very specific reasons, not knowing that things could ultimately get ‘out-of-hand’. European Boar were introduced along the Texas Gulf coast by the early cattle barons for the purpose of sport hunting. Their blood still flows through the veins of many, if not most, feral hogs living in this part of the state today. The German carp was introduced by early German settlers as they considered them to be a delicacy, and were the fish of preference for making ‘gefilte fish’. Such a listing could go on-and-on.

The crux of the matter is that we have to deal with such matters on a case-by-case basis, and at the local affected area level.

It is a well know fact that any time a species is introduced into a new environment, or habitat, initially there typically is a major population explosion; the population reaches a plateau; next begins a slow but steady decline, and then levels off, having come to equilibrium with its environment. I could cite any number of cases during the past 50 years demonstrating this phenomenon, but will refrain.

Hysteria solves nothing.

Cheers!
Aged-sage

16

I am with you on this topic Bamboozle

17

We have occasional Bear attacks (I have never heard of anyone involved in an unprovoked attack by Feral Hogs) in TN, many times with serious injuries and death. Should we dynamite all the Bears in Tn? Skunks can carry rabies, so should we poison the entire skunk population, as well. Deer attack people occaionally (usually during mating season), so should we get rid of all the deer?

I grew up on a farm, and we did raise hogs, and yes, penned up hogs can be dangerous, for several reasons. They associate humans with food. And close contact with humans have caused them to lose thier natural fear of people. But this is an artificial environment. I doubt if you could find any single documented case of anyone, anywhere involving an unprovoked attack by feral hogs in the wild (that does not involve hunting, which is a provocation). In 50+ years, I have never heard of any such case. In fact, unless you are purposely stalking or hunting them, you will probably never see anything but tracks. Wild hogs go to great lengths to avoid encounters with humans.

On your ‘attack’, was this a real feral hog, or a hog that was being raised by the University (in which case, it is not a ‘feral’ hog). And were you just walking through the woods, minding your own business, or were you trying to tag, record, or otherwise interact with the hogs?

I also have a Doctorate, and my B.S. was in biology. All this talk about ‘environmental damage’ comes from the USDA who are far from environmental experts. Thier fear is that feral hogs take resources away from commercial hog production, hence the fear propaganda. As I have stated repeatedly, nothing damages the environment more than commerial agriculture.

Feral hogs are no threat to anything, and are in fact, a valuable resouce.

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but somone needs to set the record straight, and offer rebuutles to all the fear-mongering that is so prevalent in modern society, on almost everything.

18

Isn’t MANKIND the most invasive of all animals??? The only “balance” we’re trying to maintain is the balance that generally benefits humans. There’s one distinct difference I didn’t see mentioned and that’s when an ‘invasive’ species endangers humans and not just humans recreational lifestyle. Predatory animals that can take down humans are alot different than zebra mussels. The difference is between being a nuisance and down right lethal. They all need dealt with for mankind to enjoy it’s cherished idea of superiority of all mammals, however some of theses critters just need dealt with using extreme prejudice. A foriegn fish in our local waters eating the native fish thus spoiling our weekend fun, is a lot different than an infestation of giant reptiles eating our kids.

19

I’m not sure I understand your position.

As far as the species you mentioned, didymo is a native species that is simply increasing it’s range. Mostly due to the increase in trailered boat use. The impacts of over-populations of didymo are minimal, and correct themselves quickly. Didymo provides extra food for small phytoplankton, which in turn provides more food for small minnows, meaning more survive to feed larger fish like bass and trout. The ‘damage’ to the environment is that over-populations cause a slimy, (but harmless) flim on rocks and vegetation that recreational users find unpleasant.

Mud snails are an accidental import from New Zealand. Not only is thier environmental impact minimal, it is actually somewhat beneficial. Mud snails do compete with local snails for resources, but by the same token, they provided excellent forage for crawfish, minnows, aqualtic birds, and especially smallmouth bass, who consider them a delicacy. In all waters that they have been introduced in, smallmouth populations have increased significally, both in numbers, and size. They would have little impact on trout populations because they require a soft bottom (hence the name ‘mud snail’), which would rule out most trout streams, having mostly rocky bottoms. The fear of mud snails is that they may replace native snail species, which so far, has not been the case. Zebra Mussels immigrated from Eastern Europe. Again, the ‘environmental’ damage is minimal, and limited mostly to human endeavors. Zebra mussels are, in fact, very beneficial, as they are one of the best things in the world at filitering water and removing pollution, and harmful chemicals. In all waters where they are present, the water quality has improved greatly. The ‘damage’ they do is that, like barnicles, they attach to EVERYTHING…rocks, dams, boats, other mussels…anything that seems stable. They can clog water intakes on dams, necesitating removal and cleaning, which costs tax-payer money (but isn’t that what it’s for, anyway???). On the other hand, Zebra mussels provide great forage for muskrats, aquatic birds, shellcrackers, freshwater drum, and many other fauna.

Instead of destroying an entire ecosystem to try to eradicate one species (which will probably not work anyway), we should find ways to use them, such as placing Zebra Mussels in waters that have the warning signs saying not to eat the fish due to mercury levels in the water, like Ft. Louden Lake, NIckajack Lake, Lake Chickamauga, the Tennessee River, the Cumberland River, etc…, and let them filter out the chemicals. In other words, instead of griping about too many unwanted apples…make applesauce…

Then why all the fuss about mud snails, zebra mussels and Didymo? Who cares, let 'em take over, why bother, hmmmm…sounds like another issue in the forefront of the news.

Seriously, why should we give a rat’s arse about ANY invasive if it does more bad than good trying to stop it and we got lucky with brown trout? Maybe we could even make escargot out of mud snails and veggie burgers out of rock snot?

Is it because snakes, pigs and snakeHEADs don’t impact trout fishing??? Boy if a snakehead or two ended up on some pristine trout stream the TU crowd would be going ballistic over this stuff looking for someone to blame and something to ban.

Hypocrisy runs rampant. It’s no wonder lots of folks could care less about the invasives it’s hip to worry about!
Whiskey will get you through times of no fish, better than fish will get you through times of no whiskey.

FUBO

20

As I said, there is little to worry about. A good case in point, that perfectly illustrates my point is the cold ‘snap’ earlier this year in Fla. After the front went through, biologists reported that over half of all the excotic species, and possibly even more, were devatastated by the cold temperatures. Iguanas, Walking Catfish, Pythons, Spotfin Eels, Snakeheads…were all but exterminated by the weather. SO nature has once again achieved a balance to control populations, without human intervention, and without disturbing native populations. The remaining exotics will most likely be kept in check by the local fauna.

As far as Pythons being dangerous to humans, in the wild, there is no documented, verified case of ANY constrictor killing and eating a healthy human, even a child. Even in captivity, the only case I ever heard about was a Florida woman who had a Reticulated Python as a pet, and was later discovered inside the snake. The consensus is that she suffered a heart-attack while handling the snake, died, and the snake merely took advantage of the situation. And even this report is not confirmed.

For the most part, nature does a much better job of wildlife managment than we do. Our efforts should be geared to minimizing our effect on the process, or actually assiting it…