Riley fly

My son (15) is tying some flies for the First Annual AK Fly Fishers’ contest. This is not a fly he is entering as there are a couple things he is working on. This is the first warm-up.

The pattern is a Catskill Light on a Mustad 94842. That would be a pencil eraser it is sitting on.

Feel free to critique it as he already knows what he does not like and it would be good to see if others agree.
art

Just remember that he is 6’4".

John

Its too small. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just kidding.

Your son is off to a good start.

Hap,

Please take the following as just suggestions for your son. I am in no way an expert.

Thin out the tailing and shorten the length to about the length of the hook shank. Taper the body beginning at the hook bend. Shorten the hackle to about 1 to 1 and a half the hook gap.

I think its great your son has interests beyond high-tech gadgets. Kids these days don’t seem to have much interest in the great outdoors.

I agree with Tyronefly, even if Riley is 6’4". The head of the fly is a bit long also. Most flies I’ve seen tied on that hook have the head on the upturned part of the shank only. Makes for a small head.

What size hook is he tying on? A 22?

REE

Tyronefly
No problem with anything being said, I asked for and he wants a critque. And please accept my thoughts in the same way, just exchaning ideas! :slight_smile:

To start, this is a 26, so that needs to be remembered… It looks like it must be canted or the lens is playing a foreshortening game with the hackle. The wings are as close to 2x the gap as can be measured and the hackle is exactly 1 1/2x the gap. Those were carefully laid out ahead of time. The thread base may have affected the length because this is such a tiny fly.

I agree on the tail length, somewhat, and on the number of fibers, completely. A classic Catskill style fly uses wood duck fibers for the tail, also. And very few of them. And they do run about the shank length.

Catskill patterns also tend to be tied with the body short and back from the eye with limited hackle and a bit of shank between head and eye. It is just the style, not a “rule” though.

I really like are the body shape and the neat dubbing job… If only it were in the Catskill style! :wink: But wire rib on a dry fly has never seemed a good idea to me. The body is too plump for a Catskill fly. A true Catskill is not even tapered though… Just tiny all the way through.

Please realize I am a technical writer by training and long use, so I make definitive statements as a matter of course and many assume I am being more absolute and direct than I intend. It is a function of my desire to be clear. But, I do not mind a good disagreement, even a rowdy one! So feel free to tell me how and why you disagree, or agree.

Ron
The head is not well done. He dislikes the 94842 because the heads are hard to tie on the turned up section. That is whay I tie them on the straight section. :wink: Realize, I have big hands and Riley’s are a full inch longer!
Thanks!
art

Just looked at the fly and the photo again… The hook was canted in the photo as you can see from the eye. Because of the thread and materials under the hackle and the tiny hook size it is long enough, but not something I would change. Just a mild optical delusion! :wink:

Learn something new everyday. I did not know that flies tied in the catskill style did not have tapered dubbed bodies.

A very fishable fly indeed. I would thin the body if it were me and thicken the hackle with one or two more turns. I like long tails on flies and this seems to be just fine. The head does need some work, BUT changing the hook style could help very easily.

TyroneFly
My father was raised very close to the Catskills in the '30s and '40s. He tied commercially for several “houses” briefly and had the benefit of the old guys there showing him how it was done. What he passed on to me for Catskill proportions include 1) wings of wood duck flank. 2) sparse tailing, commonly, but not always woodie flank and about shank length. 3) a wire ribbed, dubbed body, as thin as possible and short. 4) Never more than three wraps of hackle… and realize the quality of today’s hackle blows what they were using right out of the water. 5) Bare hook shank showing briefly in front of the head of the fly.

My father often tied without a vise, especially with larger flies and I never saw him use a bobbin of any kind. Oh, and he was fast! :wink:

That is not to say he had the definitive answer… I wish I had Darby’s book to actually see what he has to say. I have never read it…

I know the Guild of Catskill Fly Tyers agree with most of this especially the body proportions. But that does not have to mean they are right either.
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Flyrodde
The idea with the 94842 up-eye is the eye does not get in the way of setting the hook. That is a 26 and less than 1/4" long.
art

I understand the idea of the hook style. I was just suggesting a remedy to improve the aethsteics of the fly in MY eyes. You also did not like the head.

If every critique is met with defense, how much can be learned from others? As I said a very fishable fly, but I would tie it differently, just as every other tier would. Not right or wrong, just different. If you tie for pleasure, the only real judge is yourself. Nice tie Riley, keep up the good work.

Hap,

A couple two three years back I received as a gift these four Catskill Traditional DVD series:

TYING DRY FLIES IN THE CATSKILL TRADITION, VOL. I
Author: David Brandt
TYING NYMPHS IN THE CATSKILL TRADITION, VOL. 2
Author: Floyd Franke
TYING STREAMERS & BUCKTAILS IN THE CATSKILL TRADITION, VOL. 3
Author: Bert Darrow
TYING WET FLIES IN THE CATSKILL TRADITION, VOL. 4
Author: Ralph Graves

These are great videos, but none that I recall gave out as much info as you laid out here. Thanks!

“Please realize I am a technical writer by training and long use, so I make definitive statements as a matter of course and many assume I am being more absolute and direct than I intend. It is a function of my desire to be clear. But, I do not mind a good disagreement, even a rowdy one! So feel free to tell me how and why you disagree, or agree.”

Earlier in this thread I made that statement. Your comment is a common result of my writing style, expected and something I have tried many times to “write around.” In the course of discussion things must go back and forth. I can ignore comments or respond to them… I apologize for sounding defensive, it surely is not my intent. I can be stubborn, too. :wink:
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