What (if any) is the rule of thumb for sizing ribbing wire to hook size? From what I can gather, Ultra-Wire is sized as
X-Small: 0.008" (~32 gauge);
Small: 0.011" (~29 ga);
Medium: 0.014" (~27ga); and
Brassie: “larger than small, perfect for size 18 - 22 Brassies” ( . . . so is “Medium” ? )
I see recipes for size 18 - 22 nymphs that use Small/Medium; recipes for size 12 wets that use Small/Medium; and recipes for size 4 streamers that use Small. Are these all using one and the same definition for “Small”?
And what about type of wire? Some recipes say gold, silver; others, copper, stainless. I would think size “Small” gold wire would weigh approx the same as ~29 ga lead, whereas size “Small” silver would weigh quite a bit less (as would copper and ss, not to mention those that say wire or mono).
I?ve seen a rule of thumb for lead wire that simply said the diameter of the lead wire should approximate the diameter of the hook shank, but have been unable to find anything similar on ribbing wire. My wife?s not here . . . will someone please tell me what I think ?
I can only speak for myself, but I use ribbing wire for the “look”, not the weight, and to strengthen the parts being ribbed. Some wire or tinsel sizes just don’t look right on a certain fly size. Mono ribbing is , for me at least, only for adding strength to parts being ribbed.
Will the world fall apart at the seams if you tie a Brassie with the wrong wire size? Nope. Use what you have available. If it looks odd, buy something else.
Fly recipes aren’t hard and fast, and what one tyer calls ‘small’ wire, might actually be large to another.
If there are any ‘rules’ they would be these:
First rule: Use what you HAVE. It’s only ribbing on a fly, the fish probably won’t notice the difference between copper and gold, nor a gauge size or two either way. Don’t skip tying a fly that you want to tie because you only have gold colored brassie size wire and the ‘recipe’ calls for small copper…
Second rule: Use what looks good to YOU. Size and proportion are the personal choices that separate and define both the style and the skills of artists. If you don’t like how it looks, change it until you do.
Third rule: Ask yourself the ‘purpose’ of the ribbing. Why is it even there? For strength? To provide segmentation? Just because? If you can’t see a reason for it then all the size/color stuff is just purely decorative and it’s not critical.
Basic caveat of ribbing the ‘Buddy’ way: Copper wire from electrical wiring is the default for ALL wire ribbing unless I can see a definitive reason to use something else.
Have fun, it’s just fly tying and it won’t really matter which ever you choose.
Other than on small nymphs such as copper johns or brassie-types, my wire ribs are for flash and for structure to hold materials together, not for weight. I normally use whatever is handy, without worrying too much about size. The only time I am concerned about size is on real small flies where weight does become a factor. I use XX fine Lagartun wire for ribbing on midges, for instance, and for a #24 dry you need very fine wire.
I think that Buddy has the right idea on ribbing. I use small or brassie size wire for pretty much all my ribbing tasks including big buggers. Flash and durability, not weight are my primary reasons for ribbing in the first place. If I want additional weight, I lead wrap the shank or use a bead/cone head. 8T
Good, everybody seems to agree that ribbing wire isn?t selected to help manipulate the rate of descent, so I?m just over-thinking the problem.
Didn?t mean to imply that Brassie was larger than Medium, in fact, I kinda suspected it probably wasn?t. My hiccup was, Small is 0.011? and Medium is 0.014?, so Medium is obviously larger than Small, and JStockard?s definition that ?Brassie is larger than small size wire? tells me next to nothing as to what size wire Brassie is. Then again, if there?s really only 0.003? difference between Small and Medium, Brassie must be on the order of 0.0125?, so there?s precious little difference between Medium and Brassie, or Small and Brassie. It would take a pair of really close tolerance fingertips to distinguish the difference if the labels come off the spools
I think I?ll just go with chopping up the extension cords, too. If I need larger wire, two or more strands can?t be ?furled? together, right ?
Like Buddy said, there aren’t any rules to this game. Which is the way I like it. Experiment, see what works for you.
As for color, most wire you use, regardless of color, is going to be copper, although I do own some brass wire. I doubt you will find any gold involved except maybe as electroplating. My silver wire does seem to be silver but the whole spool of it doesn’t weigh enough to notice.
I use whatever color provides me the look I want. On tan buggers, I like copper wire, on green ones I like green or black. Ribbing on midges is silver wire over black thread…
Talk about breaking the rules, check this monster out from Orvis. It is a heavyweight stonefly. Note, in Wis we don’t have stones like this, these are out west some where, but I am going to tie these up for my carp fishing. Unless the fish are on a specific hatch, sometimes it is just more important to offer something that looks buggy and this fly trips my trigger.
go to home depot and “borrow” a cheap micrometer and measure up some wire
i use ultra wire and use what i think is the right size wire for the size fly i’m tying. whos gonna tell the difference if i used .003 wire or .007 wire?
Got to pondering just how small those differences really are. One of the more straightforward sources said a human hair is about one-fifth of a millimeter, ie, approx 0.007? ? 0.008?. So at 0.008", Wapsi X-small UltraWire is the diameter of a hair, the difference between X-small and Small, and Small and Medium is about half the diameter of a hair, and the difference between Brassie and Small, or Brassie and Medium is only about one-fourth the diameter of hair. Why bother? Who can actually see and feel the difference ?
You really need to actually look at some of the wire.
I use both the X-small and small Ultra wire when I need a specific ‘color’ for a fly. Both look way larger than a human hair to me, and the difference between them is quite noticable to the eye. I don’t know the actual measurements, but I’m pretty sure my hair is thinner than the ‘x-sm’ wire…
Aesthetics on a fly is very subjective. I know the fish probably don’t care, but it can matter to us. I do have uses where I can tell the difference in how the fly ‘looks’ between the two wire diameters.
I do find that my main source of ribbing wire, electrical stuff, will yeild both different diameters and different colors (mostly bare copper and nickled, but occasionally a nice ‘tarnished bronze’ look from some older cords) of wire strands. I keep it sorted for different applications.
The last time I measured wire I came up with these measurements all in thousandths of an inch:
Ultra Wire - X Small (.005)
Ultra Wire - Small (.007)
Ultra Wire - Brassie (.009)
Ultra Wire - Medium (.015)
Lagartun - XX Fine (.002)
Lagartun - X Fine (.0025)
My hard a fast rule for sizing is what ever looks best on the fly I’m tying. I use all the different diameters depending on the hook size or the effect I’m after. For example the ribbing on my size 26 & 28 Biot Midges is XX Fine Lagartun. Anything else looks HUGE!
I also trashed all my unvarnished and un-coated wire years ago. If you get clammy hands while tying like I do, unvarnished wire, (like what you will typically find in extension cords) will tarnish and eventually turn green or black. Even the water will turn the wire in time. I use wire for the flash in most cases so I want it to be as flashy as possible for as long as possible. Obviously YMMV.
For my money you can’t beat the spooled fly tying wire with its varnished coating and myriad of colors. I’ll scrimp someplace else.
That is true, but diameter and area/volume are different. If you increase the diameter of a wire by 50% you are actually increasing the area of the wire by about 1.25 times. SO it would take 4 x-small strands to equal one brassie strand, not 2.
Good point, Flyrodde . . . ( wish I could say “I was just about to think of that” )
. . . and Bamboozle, I haven’t mic’d the wire, just cited dimensions provided by the seller, assuming he was posting manufacturer’s specs; but some of your numbers imply that “close tolerance” probably isn’t stressed in the QC manual for ribbing wire
smc -
I used to be clueless, but I’ve turned that situation around 360 degrees
