Retailer Rant - Or Why On-Line might be better

Guys, thanks for the thoughts.

Unfortunately, the “employee” was in fact the owner. So no benefit of the doubt need be given. The owner was in fact shooting himself in his own foot.

As for low-end vs. high end gear, my post was not meant to be a statement one way or the other. I would have been equally annoyed had the guy tried to sell me a $300 outfit given the way he was talking down to me. I have both low end and high end gear, and love it all. It’s all about timing in life. When I was a single guy doing OK, the Winston trout rod was a nice splurge. But my temple fork rod is also a joy to fish. A few more years, a few more kids and a mortgage, and the disposable income equation changes.

I can honestly say I’ve never had that happen in my local shop, I’ve had folks come in after me that had out of state plates and I just tell the guys to go ahead and take care of them as I’m just checking stuff out.

Most times I can email them and tell them what I need and they get it packed up for me when I show up.

The only other shop I’ve ever been at was in NY and I was only picking up some egg yarn and the guy asked me where I was going to fish and I told him the Oak Orchard. Well like you I got the you need this and that and I pretty much shut him up when I burst out laughing at him. I told him kid I’m twice as old as you are and just because I have VT plates on my car don’t be fooled I grew up fishing the Oak it’s my home river.

The owner of that store was not pleased!!!

Fatman

I had an employee try to up sell me an expensive rod and reel combo suggesting that my rig was perhaps not up to snuff. I asked him " How much farther will that rod cast than my rod?" He said “at least 20 feet.” I said “and how much farther will that reel allow me to cast.” He said “No farther but it has a superior drag.” I pointed out to him that I palmed my reel so that a drag especially for a 5wt trout rod was a moot point and I then invited him out into the parking lot so he could prove to me that His rod would cast farther than mine. It was at this point that I determined that he did not know how to cast at all. He shuffeled off to harass another customer.

I love this thread. My wife would hate it. I never hold back when someone who is supposed to be a customer service rep acts like an idiot. I am always very cordial to begin with and state the problem simply to see how they react. That usually works best. However, if they react poorly, I show my butt to make sure they understand that they are not doing their job. A good owner/manager will have more respect for you for having spoken up I find. My wife really hates to be with me when customer service fails. She knows the employee is about to take it on the chin and is always embarrassed. Do not let the presence of others deter you. More customers actually make it more likely that they will change and fix your problem. I think she finally has enough courage to speak up herself once in a while after seeing my successes :smiley:

Unfortunately 2 of the 3 local shops I like here are now belly up. They had good people running them. Luckily the 3rd one still afloat has a great owner who’s a very professional person who goes to great lengths to meet the needs of his customers. Supposedly we have a new shop opening in September here. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

Unfortunately, the “employee” was in fact the owner.

Yeah in that case it’s hard to make any excuses, sadly though that’s how a lot of owners and employees are anymore. Just put money in their pocket and leave is all they want.

I’ve had been in some great shops as well as some really bad shops. I use to have a fly shop here not even 1 mile from my house that was IMO the best shop in the world (Fly Mart fly shop). The owner John Vincent was the friendliest guy you could ever want to meet. Always welcomed me by name, had coffee ready all the time, would help with anything I needed. His brother Chris whom was co owner with John when they first opened the shop even loaned my ex-girlfriend his own personal waders one time when she wanted to go fishing with me and she didn’t have waders. Great guys and great shop. Sadly they are gone now due to lease problems with the building.

And on the other end of the spectrum I will never forget the time we were in an “upscale” shop here on the west side of MI when one of the guides came back after guiding his client and proceeded to have a 5 min conversation with the shop owner right in front of us about what a loser his client he guided was because he had only tipped him $50 that day.

Back to the whole internet vs shop thing…what never ceases to amaze amaze me about that is the fact that the majority of the shops out there don’t have a website for their shop where they sell gear. In this day and age every business needs a website. There’s a shop I visit all the time up north where the owners always talk about internet taking their business, yet after 12 yrs in business they don;t have an “online sales” part to their own website. Just blows my mind that they don’t put 2+2 together.

Steve

RFolks, Give Ladyfisher’s article a read in this weeks issue. Comes at it from the suppliers point of view.

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ldy/ldy20090831.php

REE

I’ve got three places within a 15 minute drive that sell fly fishing products: one is Gander Mtn. it’s got a limited selection, and the staff knows nothing about fly fishing (except one young lady who ties clousers for smallmouth), but there’s a few random items that they have that are hard to find elsewhere, like their selection of tools, and a very few items that, for some reason, they have a considerably better price on (bucktails are nearly 30% cheaper).

Second place is an Orvis retailer. It’s a small shop with that “fly shop” feel, but the truth of the matter is that of the two guys that operate it, one knows nothing about fly fishing. The other guy has a decent working knowledge of the fishing end, but neither one seems to be a proficient tyer, which is where most of my fly fishing dollars go. I’ve bought 2 reels from them and the customer service has been excellent. You do get a little bit of the “you dont really want what you think you want…you want this…”, but generally, they’re reasonable enough to show you an alternative in the same price range, and usually, they’ve been more or less correct. I guess the key moment for that place was when I asked the one guy what sizes a certain saddle would tie and he couldn’t even venture a guess. I still go there for certain things that other places dont carry (they’ve got a good selection of synthetics), but now, most of my business goes to another place.

The third and final fly shop around here is what appears to be a back porch that turned into a finished addition on the back of the owner’s (and only worker) house. It’s about 10x20 and literally ever inch of the walls, from about 3’ above the floor to the ceiling is covered in bags of materials, tools, accessories, etc. And that wasnt enough: 2 racks sit in the middle of what little floor space he has, full of stuff, with added hooks on the sides, also full of materials.

Two things that ensured a return visit, right off the bat was 1) the lack of “commercialization”. There were no large displays from big names in fly fishing…and really, nothing for sale from the typical “big names”. There’s no Orvis, Sage, Winston, Fishpond, Simms, etc. The biggest names in the shop are Regal vises, Teton reels, and Echo rods. There’s about a dozen rods on hand, and about that many reels, but its obvious that he’s more interested in getting customers to keep coming back for 10-20 dollar trips, than getting a few beginners per year outfitted who may never return.

The second thing that really impressed me, was that as soon as I came in, he started a conversation with me, but never tried to push me toward a sale. If I asked what material I’d need for a fly, he showed me, and there’s been several times when he has said “you dont want that”. The reason, however, was “because for what you’re doing, its overkill, and you can get the same effect much cheaper by trying this”. Over the past year, he’s saved me money like that several times, and showed me simple alternatives. He’s also quick to offer tips and suggestions, but, unless its a simple black & white issue, he makes it clear that it is, in fact, his opinion. One of the best things I like about this guy and his shop is that he almost always reminds me as I’m leaving that if I ever have any questions about things, just stop by, I don’t need to buy something to come in and talk fishing.

That means alot to me.

LOL…that’s too funny. I would’ve thought hard about calling that turd out on that one. $50 cash = $80 (or more) on a paycheck. I’ve never employed a guide. I would’ve thought that to be a decent tip. What do those guys get paid for guiding a client anyway? If a rod fee is in the $200 range, how much does he get vs. the shop he works for vs. property owners (if all three are different entities). I find rod fees laughable personally and I’d never pay it on a working man’s salary.

I’d say: “We have an opening in our group to fish this weekend. Maybe with your vast experience you could tag along and teach us a thing or two”. Then you’d see him shut up very quickly.
We used to do this to dirt bikers(especially motocross riders) when they tried to tell us they were better than us woods riders ;). It only took one trip out with us for them to find out.

If only our local retailer (Squander Mtn) HAD tying materials!! :frowning:
We’ve asked them since they opened to get us tying materials only to see the fly fishing section get smaller and smaller.

What do those guys get paid for guiding a client anyway? If a rod fee is in the $200 range, how much does he get vs. the shop he works for vs. property owners (if all three are different entities). I find rod fees laughable personally and I’d never pay it on a working man’s salary

Gigante I’ve never hired a guide myself, not that I’m saying no one should hire a guide but I’ve just never seen the need to do so or had the desire. But I do know this shop charges $370 for a full day. Most guides around here will get somewhere around 50% and the shop itself gets the other 50% from what I understand.

Steve

Apparently I have a face that says, “I’m a moron, lie to me. I’ll buy anything.”
It lies.
I’m not quite as profligate as that Jack Benny character was.
My CPU is running the Cynical OS. I have enough system memory to isolate contradictions that usually occur in a few minutes verbal input from an eager salesman. It comes from actually listening to what they say. (Sometimes it comes from leading them on, just to see what they’ll say. Agree with them a lot. It gives them confidence to show their colors.)

Ed

Thanks for the info.

So $370 divided by 2 = 185

185 + 50 (tip) = 235 per day

That’s about the salary of the average teacher or better actually if you’re talking about some of the lesser paid Southern states, some of it in cash…for fishing… Now I KNOW I would’ve given that dude heck for complaining about a $50 tip. Good grief.

I do understand that it’s not “regular” work and that it would not entail the same benefits but still. I wouldn’t know what to do with myself if I received a $50 tip for a day of teaching. Wait, yes I do, I’d go buy a new fly line with the cash and spool it and trash the evidence before the Mrs. saw it :slight_smile:

I think the ‘tip thing’ may be over the top. Do these guys then tip you when you ‘do your job’?

Until a guide comes to my office for services and then tips me, I don’t feel obligated to tip them. They set their price on the front end same as the rest of us.

I will tip waiters well and the person that cuts my hair(unless she owns her place of business) and caddies on golf courses(although rare to have them).

Bear742
Senior Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Davis, IL, USA
Posts: 340

An Easy One
Here’s something I have not heard lately at a shop:

“We can order it for you.” Or “We can get it for you.”

Since even the largest shop cannot stock everything, it stands to reason that the owners and clerks should be prepared to recite this sentence. If I need something, I am probably willing to pay a little more for it. Then the store gets the reputation as a place that goes the extra mile. And I find a place I can rely on for what I need. It is called service.


Mike G

I borrowed this post from “Readers Voice” based on Lady Fishers article this week.

The shops I visit have known me the entire time I have fly fished/tied flies/built rods. I haven’t gone out of my way to be known by them, but they seem to remember me. (shut up!!:p) They allow me to roam about freely, encourage me to open zip locked packaging to inspect the materials closer, ask questions, answer questions, and frequently (especially on new materials/toys) will say, “Let me order it for you”. Often times, that new product will then be carried in their store.

Sure there are times I hear them being “hoity toidy” with people who think they know everything, or are out to impress staff, but they’ve also heard me snort, and roll my eyes at them.

I still vividly remember the time in the Or … opps! shan’t mention names … a store in Jackson Hole, where the staff continued to wait on biggies (they thought so, at least), and totally ignored me. I, very loudly (and totally out of character :rolleyes:) said, “Excuse me?! What am I??!!?? A potted plant???!!!” Everything stopped for a second, they waited on me, and I left, never to return. Had I not needed what I was purchasing, and any other fly fishing store in town open at that hour, I’d have tossed it at one of the worker bees behind the counter, on my way out o the store.

I have noticed, with some consistency, that if I go in a fly shop and head for the tying materials they might say “you need any help?” but then leave me to my own devices.
If I look at clothes, or rods, or anything else, they are all over trying to sell me half the store’s inventory.

Why?

Because if I’m in the tying materials they assume I know plenty about fly fishing. That makes me a hard sell for anything else.

But, if I’m in the rods or shirts section I could be a newbie and fresh meat for their sales pitch.

I was once on vacation in a big box looking for a saltwater rod and the salesman kept pushing very expensive rods in my hands and explaining why they were worth a fortune. Finally, I told him that I build rods. His answer was “well, you’ve never built anything like this.” True story.

No, I didn’t buy a rod from that store.