I know most will think this is not worth mentioning. However, I have seen many tutorial videos in which stacked hair is removed with the wrong hand. Even a video I watched by Davie McPhail did it “wrong”. In that video, he, and many others, remove the hair and then switch hands. This tends to defeat the purpose of stacking as the tips often misalign in this changing of the hands.
If one is tying a forward tip hair fly, such as the comparadun family of flies, the hair should be removed with the right hand. The stacker should be held in the left hand.
If one is tying a rear facing tip hair fly, such as the caddis family of flies, the hair should be removed with the left hand. The stacker should be held in the right hand.
I hope I explained this reasonably well. It is just that I see all these folks carefully aligning the tips of hair and then switching hands before laying on the hook, thus messing up the tips again.
AHA! Thanks, one of those things that I wrestle with. I appreciate with pictures to illustrate. Now, if I could only get the “take a picture with one hand” stuff! I can take the digital picture, but how it would turn it out!
Mike
I saw the McPhail video today, while I searching for the name of the fly at bottom right on the cover of Barrs flies book. Still haven’t found out what its called.
Yes, removing the hair with the hand that holds the hair does often make the placement and keeping the hair tips even. However, switching hands, especially if you are removing the hairs with your dominant hand and then switching to your off hand, without ‘unevening the hair’ must be learned. I say this because if (right handed tyer) you hold the hair stacker in left hand and point it to the right to remove the hair with your right hand, you will either have to wrap the hair down with your left hand OR, switch the hair to the left hand and hold it down so you can wrap it with your right hand (left hand tyer would be reverse).
So, although I have not seen the video by Dave McPhail, if he did switch hands, I would not call it “wrong”. By the way, if you are right handed, which it looks like you are, do you remove the hairs with right hand and wrap the thread with your left? I kinda think not.
I certainly am right handed. There is a tremendous difference between changing hands after removing the hair from the stacker and the DIRECTION of the hair tips vs. holding the hair against the hook without changing hands and the direction of the hair tips. In either case, one changes the hand which is holding the hair. However, in my method, you do not completely change the direction of the hair in the hand(s).
I did mention this to Davie in one of his videos and he responded that…yes, he should have removed the stacked hair with his other hand in order to keep the tips in the same direction as would be when applied to the hook. He said he usually does so, but had not in this instance and said he should have since his videos are often teaching videos and should show the best way of applying deer hair to the hook.
Perhaps I have still not made the simple point I was trying to make. If you use the “correct” hand to remove the hair from the stacker, you need not change the direction of the hair tips which is quite disruptive to maintaining the even tips.
If I could prepare a video, perhaps I could demonstrate the difference.
I think you need to proof read your own writing. In the first paragraph of your post you emphasize the effect of switching hands: “However, I have seen many tutorial videos in which stacked hair is removed with the wrong hand. Even a video I watched by Davie McPhail did it “wrong”. In that video, he, and many others, remove the hair and then switch hands. This tends to defeat the purpose of stacking as the tips often misalign in this changing of the hands.” By inference you are saying that switching hands is wrong.
Notice, you state that the purpose of stacking is to align the tips and that by switching hands the tips often become misaligned. Now while I did not disagree with your point that the open end of the stacker should face the same direction the tips will be tyed down, I stated that learning to switch hands without losing the alignment of the hairs is a necessary technique. It takes some practice but if you work with hair it needs to be learned. Actually, regardless of the material, you need to learn how to handle it without losing alignment, i.e. hair, pairs of quill slips, fan wings, etc.
Will try to do a better job explaining. I guess it can be summed up this way: if tying a Caddis, and removing the hair with your right hand, your tips are more likely to become misaligned by having to change hands AND the direction the hair is pointing.
Actually, this is how you learn to handle material without losing alignment.
One can do things the more difficult way and still achieve an acceptable outcome, but that is why I was suggesting to others a very simple suggestion for improving the efficiency and outcome of applying stacked hair. One could, actually, tie a good caddis, for example, by evening the tips by hand. But that is time consuming and difficult to keep nice and clean.
Assuming a right hand tier, of course. The opposite, if left handed.
Perhaps others might tell how they remove hair from a stacker when tying a caddis (with rear-facing tips) v. a comparadun (with front-facing tips).
Learning to transfer hair and/or any other material from the fingers of one hand to the fingers of the other without losing the tip alignment, or altering the material in any way, is an important technique that needs to be learned. Pointing the tips and opening of the stacker in the direction of its final location is somewhat helpful. However IMnsHO, the former is significantly more important then the latter.
Oh, and I understood what you meant.
I get that shifting the hair from one hand to the other, turning it around, or otherwise manipulating it after removal from the stacker might slightly misalign the hairs.
But I’m absolutely certain that this matters not even the tiniest amount to whether or not the fish takes the fly. Perhaps even the reverse. Nothing in nature, expecially any portion of ANY insect, is straight or even.
Aren’t we getting a bit overboard with the concept of ‘right way-wrong way’ here? It’s not like any of what we discuss in this forum matters all that much in the real world…
I think you’re right Buddy. I, originally, was just trying to suggest the “better” way to apply stacker hair - primarily for young tiers. I believe I even said it was just a “little” idea which I felt might help other tiers. It may not matter much, but it certainly was questioned…
Byron I appreciate reading your threads and the tying input you offer. I’ve not quite gotten to hair yet but will someday and this info should be helpful then.
I tied for years without a stacker. Still do. If mother nature had intended for the tips of hair to be even when tied on a bug she would grow it all the same length on the hide. I don’t teach the use of hair stackers in my fly tying classes either. There are other methods of getting the tips somewhat even that are quicker.
I do not agree with Byron. In fact I do not feel there is any “correct” way to use my hands and strongly object to anyone saying I am doing my tying “wrong” or trying to tell me I should change my method of tying because he thinks he has a better way of doing things. I can and do use either hand, depending on what I am tying. Over the years I have developed the “switch of hands” movement so that the tips of my stacked hair does not misalign even the slightest bit. Slow down and teach yourself the technique.
I have tied for 68 years and catch a lot of fish so because I prefer that the fish be the judge, I must be doing something right. I also feel everyone should be entitled to an opinion, even if I disagree.
Tying is not something that “has to be done like some one that is more well known or has published a book”. I feel it is good to offer suggestions of different ways to tie but please do not try and dictate to me as to how I should do things.
I agree 100% with what Buddy posted above.
Denny
I like to try to keep hair tips even in most of the flies that I tie, and I appreciate what you are saying, Byron. However, when I’m tying I often revert to what feels most comfortable, and this often involves switching hair from one hand to another.
If I was looking for speed, what you’ve suggested, Byron, might reduce my tying time, but I’m not looking to speed up my tying, and I haven’t had any problems keeping hair tips even.
Where I have more difficulty is getting hackle barbule tips even, for example when I mix grizzly and brown hackle barbules together for the tails of an Adams. However, even though I try to get them even, and like the looks of my flies tied with evenly paired hackle barbules, I doubt that it matters one way or the other to the fish.
I’m sure, Byron, Allan, Buddy and Denny are all correct.
I would point out that a few years ago, in one of their 10 Tying Tips of the Pros articles, the Beatty’s advocated holding the stacker so that the tips faced the way they should be tied in, so that direction would not have to be changed - saving time and possibly alignment.
i think everyone here is correct in their own beliefs, my own personal one is that unless you are a production tyer it doesn’t much matter . i tie flies that catch fish , stopping only occasionaly to reinvent the wheel. good post though, brought up some good points!
I agree wirth almost all the comments about the stacking process. However Byron, why don’t you just re-read your very first post and see how condescending your comments are to many of us. For me it was pure BS! For example, in the very first sentence you state that, “most will think this is not worth mentioning”. You are right and you should have simply stopped right there. In the 2nd and 3rd sentences you use the phrase “wrong hand” and “did it wrong”. You’re the one insisting that there is a ‘right’ way, a ‘wrong’ way, and that yours is the right way. We’ve had some posts here where ‘opinions’ were discussed. You always seem to take a ‘Holier then Thou’ approach. So as I’ve written before, you have your opinion - Good for you. But don’t tell me that my, or others’ opinions/methods are, ‘Wrong’ (your word). Oh, and for the record, I venture to say that I’ve used a hair stacker more times than the total number of flies you’ve tyed.
