Registering Fly Patterns

All about flies Fly Tying
1

Hi everyone, I was told by several of my friends that I need to register several of the flies I have designed since they are so productive and I dont know where, how, or when I need to do this. Do any of you know where, how, and when I register the flies I have designed and made the patterns for?

I would love to register them since i have seen they produce fish, and lots of smiles on the fishers faces, I cant fly fish but I love tying them and my husband and his friends love them as well.

Thanks fo any help you can give me. :smiley:

2

Why do you feel the need to register your fly pattern?? Are you looking for a monetary gain with these patterns??

Alot of famous fly tyers have never ‘registered’ their fly patterns and have graciously shared them with the fly fishing/tying community.

Patenting your fly pattern can be expensive. Extensive research must be made as to not infringe on other patents or even copyrighted flies.

Does this fly do things that no other fly does to catch fish!

Most ‘new’ flies are simply a variation of older patterns with new material.

Just my opinion.

3

:shock: You know all I asked for was any information as to how to register a fly as so no-one elese could gain monetary value from it and yes this fly is a gareenteed fly, it catches everytime it hits the water, as I have seen the results for myself. This being done in cold, warm, and rainy weather. I didnt say I was going to sell these for profit, all I ask is that no-one elese take this fly and put their name on it and then gain monetary values from it. I tie for the fun of the sport, I dont fish them myself due to a disability, so please give up the attack.

4

Hey Kayakfish,

Before you get your dainties in a bunch, I think Norm made some
very good points. I did not take his posting as an “attack” on you
at all. If you take a couple of deep breaths and read his posting
again in the vein I’m sure he offerred it, you may find it to be
beneficial. If you just want to get credit for “inventing” the fly,
publish it everywhere you can. Then all will know where the
pattern originated. G Warm regards, Jim

5

I agree with Jim. I think that you were being told that it is expensive when you get involved wth patent or copyright laws. I also agree that posting pictures and the instructions in as many places as you can for this fly is good advise. Put your name out there with this fly and see what happens.

6

There is no ‘fly pattern registry’ nor are there any fly police who will confiscate your vise if you try to tie some protected pattern. You could try to patent your fly pattern but it would be a difficult thing to patent a fly pattern and make money off that for the following reasions:

  1. Patents are expensive, try 10-15 thousand dollars. It would have to be a pretty earthshaking new pattern to warrant that expense.

  2. It is really tough to invent a totally new fly that is unlike anything that has been published before. The first publication that described fly tying and fly patterns was published BEFORE COLUMBUS DISCOVERED AMERICA so there are 500+ years of prior art on fly patterns, all of which could invalidate a potential fly patent.

  3. Again, there are no fly pattern police so it is up to you to hunt down any party that copies your patented pattern and haul them into court to enforce your patent at your expense.

That said, there are two recent fly patents that I know about: Jim Teeny patented the Teeny nymph but I think that patent has expired (you should check for yourself before you tie any Teeny nymphs), Waterwisp has patented some of the hook modifications that allow them to produce thier style of (upside down) fly. You can buy their special hooks from them on their web site.

You might have better luck with tradmark and/or copyright. I know that a copyright only costs about $50 and you can copyright written word, art, photographs and even computer code. You will have to dig around in copyright law wrt fly patterns yourself as I am a patent guy (I have 7 but none on fly patterns) and don’t know alot about trademark and copyright. I do know that Orvis recently had a deal where you could send them a fly pattern and if they liked it and wanted to offer it in their catalog, you would get a royalty. You might want to pursue that.

7

Thank you that is more of what I was looking for not a why do you, or what makes you think, or that kind of crap. just plain old knowledge, of what should be done to keep the monetary creeps from bugging in, and claiming something thats not there’s. I didnt say that this fly will be a success even just that the choosen few that have been alowed to fish it suggested to register it somehow somewhere under my name and date of devlopment. I appreciate your open and honest opinon, and have gotten the ball rolling through a well known internationally known tier, to what I need to do.

Thank you :smiley:

8

A couple of ‘points’.

You can ‘prove’ a design date by sending yourself a copy in a self addressed envelope and keeping it sealed. The postmark can then ‘prove’ the date for you. If nothing else, this protects YOU if someone else claims your design. This a legal ‘rebuttable presumption’. It’s ‘presumed’ true unless there is credible evidence to refute it.

Obviously there is no governing body for the registration of fly patterns. You can apply for and receive a patent from the government if you are willing to persue it. There is a price, in both time and money, to doing this.

Copyrights are easier, but more limited in scope. For the differences, you’ll need to speak with a patent attorney, they vary based on the item involved.

Some common misconceptions about copyrights and patents:

First, they only ‘exist’ as a legal barrier (that’s what they are legally, a ‘barrier’ to someone else’s activities) if YOU, as patent/copyright holder ‘protect’ them. This means that no government agency will bring action against an infringement, you have to do this in civil court yourself. If you don’t do this, then the patent is classed as unprotected and in fact becomes void. There are some federal criminal laws about patent/copyright infringement, but they apply mostly to large industries that have lobbied for special status.

Second, patents/copyrights only protect against others ‘profiting’ from them. Personal use, like a kid drawing a picture of Mickey Mouse, or me tying a fly for my personal use that is identical to yours is absolutely legal as long as I don’t ‘sell’ them. You can’t keep folks from making and fishing with them, just keep them from producing and SELLING them.

This is what makes fly patterns hard to protect. A fly tier sees one, and comes up with a recipe to duplicate it. It works for him, so he keeps using it, and gives some to his friends. After it gets passed around a good bit, someone shows it off to the local fly shop, and maybe the same guy or someone else offers to tie them for the shop. They end up in the bins, and folks begin buying them.

You find out about it, and send a cease and desist letter. The fly shop owner complies. BUT, the fly shop down the road (or in the next town, state, or region) goes through the same process, and you are faced with having to send out all these letters to protect your patent. If you stop doing this, and enough of the flies are sold without response from you, it becomes unprotected and you face an uphill battle if they show up in a big catalog or online retail store.

All that being the case, I do wish you well.

Inovation deserves to be rewared. I hope it works out for you.

Good Luck!

Buddy

P.s, can we get a look at these flies???

9

:smiley: The info given has worked out well so far I have been contacted by 2 publishing Magazines and hopefully they will publish it, if they do I will let you guys know what magazine and when, Thanks for all your help. Wishing you all tight lines, and good health.

10

I realize that you’ve been bombarded with information combined with opinions and observations. Not to add to the confusion, but you might consider entering your patterns into the annual Umpgua Feather Merchants pattern review. If the patterns are unique enough and work as well as you indicate, they may purchse the rights to tie them and offer them as part of the Umpqua products. You will then receive a very small royalty for each fly sold and your get to have your name “attached” to the name of the fly. You should be able to find more information about this process on the Umpqua Feather Merchants website. A word to the wise, neatness counts so be very careful when you tie them up and package them well to protect the flies. Just a thought…

Jim Smith

11

I am a songwriter and very familiar with US Copyright Law. You can’t copyright a fly pattern.

Here is an excerpt from the US Copyright Act

[i]? 102. Subject matter of copyright: In general26
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.[/i]

A fly pattern would be a procedure. You can’t copyright recipes either.

I’m fairly certain that you can’t get a Patent for a fly pattern either. To qualify for a patent, it has to be a new and ‘unobvious’ invention or idea. A fly pattern is simply a different way of using something that already exists. Here is an excerpt from the US Patent Office:

The requirement of unobviousness means that the differences between the invention and the prior public knowledge in its technical field must be such that a person having ordinary skill in this field would not have found the invention obvious at the time it was made. The proper subject matter of a patent is any product, process, apparatus or composition, including living matter such as genetically engineered bacteria or plants. Special provisions also permit patents directed to certain distinct and new varieties of plants (Plant Patent) and new original and ornamental designs for articles of manufacture (Design Patent). Purely mental processes, newly discovered laws of nature and methods of doing business are not proper subjects for a patent

Semper Fi!

12

Have you thought of making it “The Fly of the Week” here on FAOL?

Rick

13

If it were me, I would publish a fly pattern here first…there is no way someone could claim a pattern published here was “their pattern”: everyone (and I mean everyone) would now better.

The only bad thing about publishing them on FAOL is there is immediate feedback like “we used use a pattern like that back in the 70’s”.

Heeeeey…wait a minute… :idea:

I changed my mind, I wouldn’t publish them here first. :wink:

14

Kayakfish,
Look in the Fly Fish America magazine. Al & Gretchen Beatty publish pictures and tying directions of flies that people send in. Be prepared to wait, I sent mine in back in 2004. Still waiting.

15

another person thatg might have insight to this would be Fran Betters creator of the ausable wolf, usual, and haystack flies . you can get in touch with him through his web site at http://ausablewulff.com/

16

once anybody publishes a fly in any one of the fly tying/fishing magazines, what keeps average joe flytier from tying your pattern (with absolutely no change whatsoever and using the name of the pattern) and making some cash???

anybody right now can take the current fly of the week (as an example) and tie them up to his hearts content and sell them for a profit.

17

Normand,

Probably nothing but a persons personal sense of honor and integrity.

Buddy

18

This topic confuses me a bit. When one buys a fly, are we paying for the particulars of a pattern, or for the person that tied it for you and the materials? If I tie up a dozen pheasant tails and sell them at the local fly shop am I breaking some law? Am I unethical? How many materials do I have to change to make it legal. How about if I tie left handed and all the wraps are in the opposite direction?

If I read techniques on making furled leaders , make some, and then sell them am I unethical. How about if I build picnic table out of lumber and sell it? I think you get my point.

Please help enlighten me.

Thanks,
Keith

19

I tie for a fly shop, and I copy patterns that they have bought from a supplyer,
I also tie some patterns that I have developed, and tell customers how to tie them and which materials I use. Anyone can copy any fly. Unless someone tells me they have a patten on an fly and a Lawyer tell me to stop I will continue to copy.

20

It’s of course up to each individual to decide.

What I prefer to do, if I want to ‘sell’ a fly, is to only ‘sell’ flies that I have substantially changed from the ‘standard’ or flies that I have ‘developed’ or improved myself (I’ve seldom seen anything completely ‘new’ in fly tying, so everything is surely derivative). Even if these are ‘based’ on a fly I’ve seen elsewhere, I won’t sell them unless I feel I’ve improved them substantially over the ‘model’.

I prefer not to tie ‘standard’ flies that have established recipes, except for my own use. Plenty of folks out there who do that, and do it quite well.

I will certainly copy ANY fly that I see and like for my personal use. Figuring out how to duplicate a pattern WITHOUT a recipe is something I really enjoy doing.

Others have to decide for themselves. I doubt there is a ‘moral certainty’ available here.

Good Luck!

Buddy