no affiliation, just bought a load of these, cheap and good quality. Ceramic inserts at both end, no tubes breaking if you drop them. have had one insert come off due to a drop, but glued it back in place with no poroblems afterwards.
The bend in that bobbin looks a little extreme to me but then again, and like most things in fly fishing, it’s personal and subjective. I’ve bent the ‘legs’ on a few bobbins so that the thread runs straight and not be at an angle into the tube. Seems to be more effective, less wax build-up with some manufacturers threads, more comfortable and less breakage. Just my $0.02
RonMT,
Your voice of experience -40 yrs.- is/should be worth tons.
I doubt there are many that frequent any forums that have much more or as much experience, especially as a professional. Unbelievable!
And I agree that ceramic tubes are all they say they are. In my tooling trades we even have ceramic cutters for machining various steels. It simply doesn’t get much better.
I have the Umpqua “ergonomic” bobbins. They fit my hand perfectly and have that same offset finger/thumb “pad” that the Ekich bobbins do. Ceramic tube. Round brass balls on the ends of the legs to fit the holes in various spools.
It’s pretty cool how many kinds of bobbins are available to us tiers. We all have our own preferences, as we should. Kinda like vises, there’s no one that’s perfect for everyone.
This has been a good thread. It’s interesting to look around at what’s available and maybe even try something different. Who knows what one may find out…??
Jeremy.
[This message has been edited by Jeremy (edited 17 December 2005).]
A little late in the thread (no pun intended) for this, but I read somewhere that a bobbin with a groove worn in it that is fraying thread can be repaired by holding some kevlar thread that is threaded through the tube and twisting the bobbin in a circular motion (easier done than said). The kevlar rubbing against the edges of the bobbin tube polishes out the rough spots. This really does work! I like to use those cheap Indian bobbins with the long, skinny tubes for really small patterns and this trick has saved more than one bobbin from the wire rack. Most of my tying is done with Tiemco ceramic bobbins. Do they EVER wear out?
J.C. I feel compelled to respond to Hywel’s
points so if it is a conflict of interest
you can stop it in it’s entirety or censor
it.
I designed the Ekich Bobbin 13 years ago.
Initially, the main objective was to
eliminate manual rewinding, but later the
priority shifted toward preserving
the thread properties as found in its best
state- on the factory wound spool.
Over the years it became an obsession and I
tried to improve it by adding all the
features that in my opinion bobbin should
have:
Constant Force Spring that is below
the strech force imparted during spooling
by the thread supplier of even the finest
threads.
-Ergonomic dual wire frame for comfort.
-Extra weight for better holding power
on attached materials.
-Thread anti jamming feature
-Fast spool changes, etc.
As it was made for myself I did not
spare the effort or the cost, selecting the
best materials and finishes that I
could get. I did not change a thing when I
decided to sell it and with my method of
manufacturing, the selling price appears
high if all is not considered fairly.
Hywel did not have the time to get to know
the bobbin in his short trial.
*Yes, the geometry and weight distribution
send the bobbin in to the off axis spin.
But, one touch on the thread just above
the tip of the tube, stabilizes it.
It costs aproximately 2 seconds.
*Modification of the thread cup is not
neccessary but as these spools are made of
the crystal Polystyreen that can not be
nutched for a tag end of thread to fit
into( hence the Polypropelene cap), I find
it easier to drill the access hole once,
then having to remove and replace the cap
each time.On one of the earlier post on the same subject, Stu Farnham, responding to Hywel, has estimated the time needed to modify the cap- 10 seconds or so.
*the Constant Force Spring provides aproximately 25" of thread before the clutch
tightens. With the threads 6/0 and stronger,
the clutch will allow for more dispensing
but under the higher strech force.
I do not suggest to subject the spring to such a load. The cluch mechanisam is there
for the protection of the spring.
The time that it takes me, (with one hand),
to reset the spring is 1 second. (See photo
in FAOL’s review).
Regarding the heat generated during the tension wrapping that in my observation does
fray the very fine filaments of the thread
if ceramic tube is used, I invite Hywel
to try the very simple experiment:
Use the Trico 17/0 UNI thread to it’s
maximum permisable stretch to wrap the
hook. Hold the spool so that the thread
stays on the same spot while going around
the lip of the ceramic tube. When relaxing that tension, you will find the permanent kink formed in the thread. I believe that this is caused by the heat build up because
if the same conditions are created on the
metal tube, the kink (if any) is considerably smaller.
I repeat myself on this BB, but these are my observations only- no “scientific proof”.
My intentions were not to criticize Hywel’s
point of view, but to respond with my own.
Respectfully
Faruk Ekich
Heritage Angler- Thanks for the heads up on the kevlar idea. That is a new one on me. I have tried many ways to polish the tubes on those bobbins and never could do it. I will give your idea a try and donate those bobbins to the local schools tying classes if I can get it to work for me. I must have better than a dozen of them around here?
Isn’t it funny how fly tiers can collect things. I have had people in my tying room look at my desk and just say “My God” I get a laugh out of that. Ron
After JC’s reply, which I took at face value, I ordered a Nor-Bobbin Kit based on the fact that JC’s response lead me to believe Hywel was indeed a production tier and therefore had probably tried them all. I thought “if a guy who does this for a living uses it, it’s definitely worth a look.” I take it now that JC was being somewhat sarcastic, though it didn’t even cross my mind at the time.
I had resisted the Nor before, as the thought of manually spooling has never appealed to me, but I went back with an open mind, and the features gained could well outweigh the effort involved in filling the spools. That being said, if the performance is identical, the Ekich might have been the route I would have gone, if only for the fact of being able to use threads on the manufacturer’s spool. But I only have so much to spend on myself, especially this time of year
Now, I’m not complaining, not at all, I just find it amusing, and a telling commentary on the power of the Internet and the power of inflection and tone (or lack thereof, as the case may be).
And Hywel…I hope you’re right
This has been a very good discussion, not only for me (opened my eyes to trying something new, that being a spring-loaded bobbin), but evidently for quite a few other folks. Thanks to everyone for their input, and I hope the discussion continues.
[This message has been edited by 1wt (edited 18 December 2005).]
You would think I ‘should’ know about such things, but it came as absolutely new to me that the threads are wound on the spools with a specific tension. It certainly makes sense once I think about it, and in fact falls into the “duh” classification. That being the case, why would one want to rewind any thread onto a spool? Hmmmmmm?
I have rewound thread onto spools numerous times and for 2 good reasons:
1)I acquired three ‘cones’, different colors, of size 6/0 thread. Each ‘cone’ has a couple of miles of thread. When a bobbin of any of those colors runs out I refill it.
2)When Gudebrod came out with fly tying thread on elongated bobbins, I liked the thread but hated the bobbin so I transfered the thread to a standard bobbin.
In both cases I place(d) the ‘transfered to’ bobbin in a hand drill and the process took but a minute.
I agree about spools, there are some I like and others I dislike. Some spools seem have differences, that cause the spools to be too loose (or too tight) for correct tension of thread control on the bobbin. While others have a split through the whole length of the bobbin, that make it almost impossible to secure the thread when you are trying to secure the thread tag for storage. Yet other spools have cut grooves on the rim of the spool for the securing of the thread tag, that can snag the thread when tying a fly.
I don’t dislike the thread of the different manufacturer’s, just their spool construction. I prefer to use “Waspi” thread spools for my tying, and do transfer thread from other manufacturer’s spools over to “Waspi” spools, whenever possible.
As for the differences in thread and how they are constructed, and how the construction can make a difference in tying, I wrote a very complete article on Thread and the various ways differences in manufacturing can make a difference in which thread to use for a project.
While for once I will steer clear of jumping into the fray on this topic, I do hope that if the UNI-thread spooling tension is a critical match to any bobbin holder, then I hope all the other tying thread manufacturers make sure they calibrate their equipment to Jean-Guy’s (the UNI-thread owner).
Me? I prefer to set the tension on my bobbins pretty light, and to control the tension while wrapping by finger and palm pressure against the bobbin. Why? Because I like to be in control of my materials. I accept I am funny in that respect
Cheers,
Hans W
back to adding another tier to my page
have a huge backlog to clear…
Hans,
The tension that UNI takes effort and care to control is to acheive constant stretch-
tension on all the spools. The thread comes
on a “Mother Spool” that is aprox. 250mm
in diameter and some 9km long.The thread is
automaticaly fed from that spool on to small
spools that we use. The control panel displays the the power that clutch is controled by and is expressed in millivolts
(i beleive). This is necessary because from
the start of the large spool to the last meters on it, the diameter of the spool decreases which would change the force needed for the spooling on the feeding end.
Each size and type of thread has ideal stretch, tension, flatness,layering etc. that are affected by the force during spooling.
UNI and perhaps all other suppliers, are striving to deliver those thread’s properties on their spools. The fly tyer
then, has a best conditions from where to start his thread control.
Hans, it is precisely for the same reason that you mention, that I selected the
Constant Force Spring of the value that is
lower then one imparted on any thread during spooling.
It is only then that one can control the tension by adding to it.
I realy hope that Jean-Guy contributes to this topic because we could all learn.
Paul Marriner boldly stated in his booklet:“How to Choose & Use the Fly-tying Thread”:
“Thread is the most important ingredient in
fly-tying. A bold statement, but easily suported. What about the hook? Well, a wide range of paterns are tied on tubes, but only tiny fraction of paterns are constructed without the thread.”
This booklet is most extensive material writen on the subject of threads as far as i am aware. I hear that lately, Leon Links wrote an article in the Dutch fly fishing magazine. I wish I could get it translated
(English or French).
Lets talk threads on this thread.
Regards
Faruk Ekich
1wt…like the handle. Ever since I picked up my sons’ 1wt Sage he made from a blank ans spent an odd mid-summer afternoon with it, I’ve been sold. This actually surprised me, a usual 2 or 3wt boy!
Forgive me for an obvious invasion of your orig. thread. I’m sometimes typically plain rude though…BG
All the best. This has been an informative thread. Surprising the way these things sometimes go. It turned out well!
Hmmm!
A bobbin by any other name is bobbin! I have followed this thread hoping to learn something! Now I am so confused by this tread that I think I’ll stop tying as my bobbins seem to be inferior!!?? Will my homemade Bodkin be next!?
Seriously, a lot of good info here. I’ll stick with what I’ve got though!!
I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here!
![http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/leesoares/Lisastrip013.jpg[/url:c6910]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v315/leesoares/Lisastrip013.jpg%5B/url:c6910%5D){kind=link}