Since neither appears to be a sponsor here, for tying, how are the Saber Brand hooks sold by Flyshack, and the hooks sold by Allen flyfishing as far as quality? I know the old adage about “getting what you paid for” but the Name Brands are nearly $20 per 100, and these are both around $7. I’d like to find good hooks for under $10 per 100. I am just starting out and could use some guidance before I sink a couple hundred bucks in hooks.
Dave
Allen Fly Fishing has made a great name for themselves in a short time. There quality is good and the customer service is second to none. You should have no problem from their stock. Good luck
Wizard,
You can find good deals on hooks all over the internet. Allen is good. I get hooks from both Togen (www.togenenterprises.com ) and Hagens (www.hagensfish.com ). Both have excellent prices on hooks, $30-$90/1000 depending on style (you can buy less than 1,000s, but that’s the base price I work from).
I keep hearing all that ‘you get what you pay for’ stuff too, but it is only a fish hook. They’ve been making them for a couple of hundred years now, and it’s a pretty simple object. If I was counting on the fish I catch for sustenance, then a high dollar hook would make sense. So would bait. But I fish for fun. If the fish gets away, I’ll just try to catch another one.
Good Luck!
Buddy
I have been using some of the Allen hooks that I got on a deal from Allen that they reneged on the remainder of the deal but that is another story.
The quality seems OK, that being said I haven’t really had a chance to have a big fish on to see if it would straighten the hook.
The eyes seem to be well formed but like any manufacturer you may get the odd one that is less than perfect.
The coding is similar to Tiemco.
The only other thing is getting them in a timely manner, I ordered some in Jan. last year and got the final portion of the order of hooks in July.
They have hired a new person, and Gavin seems to get things out on time now.
Mostly I use Dai-Riki hooks, which I consider a reasonably good quality hook. Follow the link for some information.
http://www.feather-craft.com/wecs.php?store=feacraft&action=inventory_browse_page&page=1
If you can find them in 100 packs, they will be a bit less per hook. As of a couple years ago, Jimmy’s All Season Angler ( www.JimmysFlyShop.com ) in Idaho Falls had them at $9.95 per 100, probably more now, and, as with Feather-Craft, there would be some S&H cost.
John
Dave;
I’ll probably get beat up over this but, as a begining tyer, you can save a lot by only buying Dry Fly hooks as you can add weight to the hooks for wet flys. My go to hooks are Mustad and I can count on one hand the number of failures!!
Also, it’s the time of year for “Fishing Shows” and you can get some good deals on hooks and materials (at the Warren,MI show last March 100 packs of Mustad hooks were buy one get one free!!).
gmac209 just killed any thought of my buying Allen Hooks because I usually need them yesterday!!
Hey Dave,
For Trout I have used Tiemco almost exclusively for around twenty years. Over the past few years we’ve tried to find suitable barbless models from other vendors to fill in the gaps that Tiemco didn’t have a barbless models for. Since then we’ve delved into some of the cross over hook models from Saber also.
So it’s to the Saber Black Finish Barbless Models where my experience is…
Straight across comparisons amongst products from various hook companies is sometimes difficult due to varying standards in hook length and gap, styles, wire diameters, etc. from one company to the next.
Some will say that Saber hooks bend out more readily than Tiemco’s but you have to keep in mind what your comparing.
For Instance Tiemco’s 5262 is there 2 XL - 2 X heavy wire, forged, bronze, perfect bend, nymph hook.
The nearest Saber in a Barbless hook is a 7231, 2 XL - 1X strong, perfect bend, nymph hook.
In the case of these hooks, for a given size, the Saber hook’s wire is lighter in diameter. So under my very unscientific test, yes the Saber bent out with a little less pressure than it took to bend then break the same sized Tiemco. But again, the ( Saber ) wires only 1 X Strong vs. ( Tiemco ) 2 X heavy as stated by both manufacturers.
The Saber’s are seriously sharp hooks, every bit as sharp as either the BL series ( Barbless ) or the SP ( Super Point ) Tiemco’s.
Currently I only use the Sabers in sizes 10, 12 & 14. Anything less than those in size, I still use TMC’s exclusively. The only Sabers I’m currently using are models 7251 ( Barbless Shrimp & Caddis Pupa hook, similar to the TMC 2487 ). The Saber 7231 ( Perfect Bend, Barbless Nymph, 2 XL - 1 HS ) and Saber 7230 ( Sproat Bend, 1 XL, 1 X Strong - Light version of the TMC 3761 ).
I fish mostly Western Freestone & Tailwater Trout waters with the flies tied on these hooks and our idea of big fish is in 4 to 10 pound range. Since I don’t have any qualms about taking those fish on traditional dry flies utilizing standard wire hooks, I haven’t had any concerns with these 1 X heavy wire hooks.
Funny thing is, I never sourced these hooks with price in mind, I was just looking for another vendor of barbless hooks. So far so good.
Hope that helps, Dave
I agree with Jack. I bought one pack of nymph hooks years ago. Since then I realized the difference between them and dries of the same configuration was minimal. Saves a lot of storing issues also as I don’t need to have a place for nymph hooks as apposed to dry hooks. I started out with Mustad and have not been able to improve on the quality although I will buy specialty hooks from time to time that I can’t find in a Mustad hook.
Bought some streamer hooks from Allen and they came in the wrong size. I contacted them and explained the error; they shipped the right hooks to me before I had a chance to send back the other ones. Quality of the hooks is fine. Having said that, I mostly use Dai-Riki. I get them on EBay and, like John said, they’re usually about $9.00/100. I like their variety and quality.
Regards,
Scott
I was at The Fly Fishing Show in Denver today and was able to meet Justin from Allen and talk with him a while. He gave me a few 25 packs to try out and the hooks look to be of good quality and strong. Some Ebay hooks I have bought could be bent with your fingers.
Over the past year or two, I have followed Justin and the growth of Allen. He has had some spectacular foul ups, but has generally done his level best to change things and improve. He seems to be a sincere young man with a desire to provide a quality product at a reasonable price.
I will second what Kevin had to say about Justin. I have bought several items from him and found the quality quite satisfactory. The service can be spotty at times but he more than makes up for it. He once sent me the wrong size reel but then sent the right size one and told me to just keep the other one. You won’t find that kind of service from most places. I haven’t tried his hooks yet but would not hesitate to do so.
Dave
Odd, I’ve heard nothing but marginal reports concerning Allen products in general from friends who have tried to do business with them, but obviously there are some fans here. I tie and fish enough that when I need hooks I need them now, in consistent quality with the styles (especially barbless) that I like, and the smaller vendors often have supply problems that I find frustrating.
Considering the price of the hook in terms of the overall price of the sport, I never really considered the name brand hooks to be all that expensive. Have tried most of the bargain brands and with only a couple of exceptions, found them all wanting. Favorite bargain brand is Dai-Riki which is about $6 per 50. Have experimented enough with the no-name brands to know that I’d prefer to spend my money elsewhere. YMMV.
Dave,
When I started tying two years ago, the gentleman who taught me recommended Saber. He’s been tying well over fifty years, and he said that spending more just didn’t make sense. Since then I have tied (and fished!) with these flies and dealt with Flyshack many times and never been disappointed. Another nice part of Flyshack is that they have free shipping for orders over $35. I highly recommend them, along with Saber hooks.
Hugh
“just starting out” and “sink a couple hundred bucks in hooks”… ?? why not sink $30 in a few different sizes and styles of hooks and make sure you like it and are going to stay with the hobby. IMO way too much emphasis is put on a particular style or brand of hook when we are tying. I freely admit that a wide selection can add to the enjoyment of tying, but it’s FAR from required. I’ve got a modest collection which I’ve accumulated over 30+ years of tying. I don’t see how someone “just starting out” can need to dump a couple hundred dollars into hooks right away.
BTW I’ve used both Saber and Allen hooks and they seem fine to me.
Because I know I’m going to stay with tying and because I plan to tie every chance I get as I can now see retirement just around the corner. And because I plan to replace nearly my entire inventory of fly patterns that I use, (which has been purchased), which totals probably 50-60 patterns maybe more, as here in NY there are 7-10 different mayfly hatches alone, plus at least 6-7 different caddis, plus I use wets and sh’s quite a bit, and lets not forget the steelhead flies I need, and what about the streamer patterns? Really an inventory of maybe a 1000 hooks does not seem unreasonable to me as I have spent the last couple weeks viewing tying vids on the internet of just the flies I want to have in my inventory, and honestly when I want to tie this or that, I don’t want to have to order something and wait for it. If I paid top dollar for say …Tiemco’s at $20 per 100, then 10 lots of hooks is $200, or is my math bad? And because it is $200 is why I am trying to save a few bucks, I am pretty sure what my consumption will be, I just want opinions as to the question, not questions about my plan.
Exactamundo Dave,
Life’s to short, if you know you’re in it for the long haul why scrimp? Quality in, quality out.
Dave
Your math works, but… is it all the math you need to be doing? $200 a year for hooks is about what I spend. I spend a LOT more than that on gas going to and from the river (especially if that river is in, say, Idaho). And is a fly tied on a 6 cent hook the same as a fly tied on a 20 cent hook? Maybe. Might depend on how many fish that fly catches before you have to cut it off and tie on a new one. I have a whole lot of dead flies lying around here with bent cheap hooks, and not many on bent quality hooks. In all honesty, if I lose a fish, so what? But if that fish is the fish of the year, I might be a little bit less apathetic about it at the time and in hindsight. And I tie each fly with the expectation that THAT ONE FLY is the one that will end up in the mouth of a ten-pound brown.
Most people do just fine with economy hooks, but like many, I have had some bad experiences with them, and use the best hooks I can for almost every situation. I tie mostly on TMC hooks, now approaching $22 a hundred for some of the styles I use, but some on Dai Rikis at closer to 14 cents each. I will NOT tie on a lot of store brand hooks, having tried them and found them wanting. I will not tie on some models of some brands of hooks because of QC issues in the past. And I won’t waste my money trying out each new brand of hooks when it shows up on the market (I might buy a pack in a bargain bin, tho, just for kicks), when I know I can buy a hook I can rely on for a few cents more.
Just my 2 cents, or one-tenth of a hook that is one-tenth of the real cost of a fly I tie.
Watch for deals - Started out with Mustads and have mostly those. Have the Togens but their bronze needs to be a little darker.
Just picked up a steal on Mustads - 2000 3906b Size 10’s and 2000 3906 Size 12’s. They’re the old stock Mustads.
Your experience and viewpoint are very different for me, because of the difference in our tying backgrounds… I was possibly the polar opposite of you, which is why my reply sounded the way it did… I started tying as a kid a whole bunch of years ago- The sporting goods store in town sold some fly materials, and I used to scrimp and save for hooks along with other things. The owner had the old paper boxes of Mustads, and he’d sell them to us kids by the individual hook. Many days after school I’d walk home with 10 new fly hooks in my pocket, or spool of thread, or whatever. I don’t believe I have ever bought a commercially tied fly. Even though today I have a stockpile of several thousand hooks, they’ve been acquired over a long time, and the thought of dumping $200 on ten styles/sizes of hooks isn’t really in my personal worldview. No need to get all wound around the axle. Good luck.
I’m another satisfied Allen customer.
The worst hook experience I’ve had in fly-tying was when I purchased some micro jigheads (1/100 oz or 1/80 oz) from a sporting goods store here in town. I was fly-fishing with a microjig pattern I had tied on these, and was getting all kinds of hits. The fish kept getting unhooked during the short battles, and I couldn’t figure out why. I looked at my microjig, and the hook had straightened out. With my thumb, I could easily bend the hook back and forth. I went home and checked the rest of the small packet of microjigs that I hadn’t tied on yet…and about 3/4 of them had the soft hooks. I won’t buy those anymore.