I’ve looked all over these forums and site but I cannot find any advice for how to keep the fly materials from spinning around the hook shank. I tried wrapping more thread, making half-hitches every so often, etc, but nothing seems to work. It ends up that my whole fly keeps spinning around the shank. Quite irritating!
Hi AlbaSurf;
Oh the frustrations of a beginner, I know them well.
a couple questions:
Are you wrapping the hook shank with thread prior to attaching any materials?
Are you using the pinch wrap technique to attach the material to the hook?
Are you first attaching materials with a few loose wraps prior to applying tighter wraps?
When you apply tighter wraps to attach material to the fly, the direction you pull the thread tight can make all the difference. Typically you want to pull the thread upwards but experiment a little and see what works best for you.
It’s all about learning thread control and the only way I know to get good at it is practice. Some techniques will come to you quite easily, others take a while.
Most of these techniques are covered in the beginners fly tying section of this site, some of the techniques can also be found on you tube videos.
Hope this helped
Wayne
Affter you put a good base of thread you have to use th pinch method of adding material. Pinch the material betweem thumb and fist finger place on top of the hook bring thread up between thumb ovr and down the other side==dothis a couple time to bind in place. BILL
Best advice I could give is learn how much tension it takes to break the thread, then back off just a touch from that; you’d be surprised how hard you can lean on it. Also consider how much material you’re using at any one application - stuff like squirrel hair is really slippery and you’re better off using just a little bit. Deer/elk hair wings on flies like an Elk Hair Caddis - you may want to start with the material on the near side of the hook and allow thread torque to pull it towards the top; like Wayne said, it’s a “feel” thing that you get from practice. Don’t throw anything away - ugly flies will catch fish.
Regards,
Scott
While you guys where posting, I was looking for a Link… LOL
Here is a Link that may ‘tye everything together’… sorry, just popped into my head!
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/alcampbell/ac051302.php
# Excerpt… thread tension
While your bobbin tension should usually be set fairly light, your thread tension while tying will often be heavier than the bobbin tension. Certain tying steps require light and loose tension to keep the materials from spinning on the hook, while other materials will need a firmer tension. Better than half the time, you’ll want to squeeze the bobbin or drag a finger on the spool to keep the tension fairly close to the braking point of the thread. That’s the best way to insure that your fly is tightly tied.
Some folks intentionally break the thread a few times when they first start tying with a new spool or bobbin, or when they tie their first fly for the day. That’s their method of determining how much tension the thread can take. If you’re new to fly tying, it’s a good idea to know how much tension is required to break the thread you’re using. It’s all part of learning. …
When tying with slippery or soft materials, that cant be cinched down ( foam rubber), put a drop of head cement on thread base.
If the whole fly is spinning around the hook it sounds like you’re just not applying enough tension throughout the fly. If this is happening then it’s likely you can pull materials out as well. After wrapping one material on, and you’re ready for the next material, see if the first material will pull out, if it does, it’s just not ties down tight enough.
The fundamental problem is lack of thread tension. Put as much tension as you can on the thread without breaking it. This should go a long way towards solving your problem. And you do not need to first lay down a thread base on the hook.
Aged Sage
When you are learning you don’t need 12/0 benechi thread either. Unless you are tying size 18 or smaller use 6/0 or 140 denier so you can put some pressure on the thread. Find some old geezer, like all of us on this site that lives close to you and see if you can either stop by and tie with them or they can stop by and tie with you. You might end up with a fishing partner and while videos are nice there is nothing like having someone there with you.
Orvis stores and many fly shops will have a tying station set up. Go in, spend a couple of bucks when it isn’t so crazy busy and see if they can help you if you can’t find someone. If it was Jan, I would be telling you to take a fly tying class at your local TU, but this time of year most of the classes are done.
Thread tension is one thing I can think of. The other is when you are tying streamers, you may be putting on too much material at once. Try smaller bundles to tie in, and if need be, put another bundle on top of the previous one. Thread tension must be almost to the breaking point. Add cement to help hold it down if necessary as well. I think those 3 issues will help you. If I am wrapping rabbit zonkers…I usually use a flexible cement. If I am using something I want stable, I usually use Sally’s Hard As Nails. If your bead chain eye is spinning…do figure eights…then go AROUND the underside of the eyes a few times in like a circular pattern. THEN you must use head cement to lock it further in. They will not move on you then…again you must have good thread tension, it is still key to holding your material in place.
Learning thread tension can be dificult in the beginning. Hang with it, and it will come to you. Be sure to wrap a thread base the full length of the shank. Also, treat every step as an anchor point. if the previous step is not secure, don’t move on to the next…it will just get worse:^). Be sparse with your matierals as well…it’s easy to pply too much.
NJTroutbum:
With all due respect, I totally disagree with the need to lay a thread base the length of the hook. It may help; but, it is not necessary. If proper thread tension is applied, things will stay where placed on a bare hook. Most of those who spin deerhair do so on a bare hook. I can spin a bunch of hair on a bare hook and drop the bobbin afterward and it will stay right there! All I need to do then is to take another couple of wraps over the spinning wrap to lock all in place. (In spite of what some also claim, deerhair CAN be spun over a thread base: if I can do it, so can others.)
Cheers,
Aged Sage
[COLOR=black]The one point that I want to address a little more is the use of glues or adhesives. Yes, they can help with a fly, but they were mentioned a couple of times in this thread. If the material spins before you add adhesive, the glue won’t help you. Don’t rely on the adhesive too much as a crutch or a problem solver. What an adhesive can do is add a little durability to an already well tied fly. I know many people that don’t use head cement and the fly last through many, many fish caught. I don’t have anything against head cements and CA type (super glues) but if you have a fly that isn’t durable to begin with, glue isn’t the answer but rather a technique is missing.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]One other thing I wanted to address is that I want to congratulate you on having the bravery to ask the question in the first place. Some people just struggle for a long time and never find out the answer because they are too embarrassed to ask. Knowing that you are willing to seek out knowledge tells me that this issue will soon be resolved and you will move in your fly tying learning curve faster than many others who are not willing to ask.
Rick
[/COLOR]
Thank you to everyone for your wonderful advice! There are definitely gems in there that will effect how I tie my next fly.
Oddly enough, I have the spinning problem more frequently when I put down a thread base than when I don’t. Maybe it is because my initial loops of thread are too loose, and then no matter how many I put over the top of it then entire “tube” of thread base will spin around the shank. Does that sound plausible? I had no problem with spinning on my bass bug, and I used monofilament then…
Karli-Rae
P.S. There are great people on these forums! Thanks so much for sharing what you’ve learned.
You got it! Not enough tension, resulting in loose loops which ‘fall apart’.
When spinning deer hair, etc., take two complete moderately tight wraps around the hair/hook, each directly on top of the last, and go over for the third wrap, but, don’t come under the hook. Simply release your bobbin on the back side and let it hang free, leaving the clump of hair on top of the hook. If the thread tension is correct, everything will stay in place! To spin the hair, simply reach under the hook with your tying hand and pull the thread directly towards your chest while resting your ‘off-hand’ in your lap. If done correctly, the hair will spin perfectly! Works every time.
Aged Sage
AlbaSurf
I am also a beginner and had the same problem. Learned about thread tension quick
and haven’t had problems with since. Also putting on materials using the pinch method
On and on --like i said in the beginning learn the “pinch method” of adding material. My inner city kids class can do it bill