I didn’t want to hijack the tippet thread but it sparked a question. I noticed a number of people in that thread will pre make their tippets with some kind of loop (perfection, surgeon’s etc.) which also means they have a loop tied into the end of their leader.
If I read it correctly, they are using loop to loop connections to attach tippet to leader?
I’ve thought about that as an easier / faster way than the orvis knot or the double surgeon’s knot when changing leaders out on the water. However, since I never heard of anyone else doing it, I thought it must be a bad idea or everyone would do it.
So, what is the downside of doing it that way?
Other than speed in changing, what’s the upside?
I had thought about posting this question as well. I don’t think I’ll ever pre-rig anything with a loop. Not even leader to line and especially not leader to tippet. The reason? I have a tendency to cast a really closed loop and find that my fly will catch on anything in the rig, especially when casting a lot of line. I’m sure many others do not have this problem, but my fault casting will keep me from using any loops. I couldn’t imagine what my wind knots would look like with a couple loops thrown in there!! :shock:
Upside? I think you’ve got it: speed and ease. For those with failing eye sight I’m sure it would be easier to tie the loops at home under a magnifier versus on the water.
I use (as does Jack Hise) furled leaders, hence the loop in the tippet. If I am using a knotless tapered leader, then I attach my tippet with a double surgeon’s knot.
Mike
I carry some premade tippets in my saltwater gear tied with Bimini twists
Don’t know why… I never use them :roll:
It’s not a lot of effort to tie a perfection or a surgeon’s loop… even with my eye sight
Jeff;
Like Pete I use furled leaders that have loops. Pre making the tippets saves a little time, I do carry tippet material in case it gets real crazy!!
I also use the Castwell knot to attach the leader to the line so I can change out floating/sinking leaders.
Pre rigging them would not be the question for me, but I can tie a perfection loop or a surgeon’s loop in less than half the time it takes me to tie a double overhand surgeon’s knot. Seems like it would keep the fly in the water longer to whip a quick perfection loop on the end of a length of tippet, slip it through the leader end loop and be back in business.
Pre rigging them would not be the question for me, but I can tie a perfection loop or a surgeon’s loop in less than half the time it takes me to tie a double overhand surgeon’s knot. Seems like it would keep the fly in the water longer to whip a quick perfection loop on the end of a length of tippet, slip it through the leader end loop and be back in business.
Am I overthinking this?
Jeff[/quote]
I don’t prerig any if that’s what you’re asking. I thought about it though. I carry too much already in my vest, so never got around to it. I consider tying as a rest for my shoulder.
btw I know you were asking about tippet change, but this threw me off.
“I’ve thought about that as an easier / faster way than the orvis knot or the double surgeon’s knot when changing leaders out on the water.”
I see you were talking about changing tippet when you change leaders. My fishing is simpler. I never change leaders.
I see you were talking about changing tippet when you change leaders. My fishing is simpler. I never change leaders.
Pete,
I’m having trouble with my fingers working faster than my brain this morning.
Actually, I am thinking about changing tippet and the best way to attach tippet to leader.
I rarely change leader (couple times a year) but replace tippet a couple times during the course of a heavy fishing day (sometimes changing weight of tippet, sometimes tying new on when it gets too short, sometimes when I get a hopeless knot that is easier to cut and tie than to try and undo).
I’ve been intrigued with the idea of using loop-to-loop for attaching tippet to the end of leader material but have never tried it and was wondering what others thought about it. Seems a few others do it that way and was / am curious.
Sorry about confusion I may have caused. Like I said, my fingers are going faster than my brain. Perhaps another cup of coffee would work (or maybe just getting back to work before my boss comes into the cubicle would also be a grand idea… 8) )
Jeff, if your fingers are that fast there should be no problem tying knots on the water …couldn’t resist
Seriously…I just like things “cleaner” at that end of the leader…having said that I’ve now pretty much shifted over to furled leaders…as those above have said …so go loop to loop…tying the loop knot on the tippet while on the water…just a simple double surgeon’s…
I find it no problem tying the loop on the tippet on the water. The snags I get on small streams along with changing flies makes me build new tippets 5-6 times a day. I usually fish 8-9 hours everyday, so that’s a lot of tippets. I find it no big deal except when the fish are rising and i’m fumbling with knots.
I really don’t like any more loops than necessary because of the potential for snags. On the occasions when I bought Orvis leaders with pre-rigged Bimini tippets; I just throw them away. IF I use a loop anywhere; I want it as small as possible.
With that in mind; I can tie a blood knot faster than I can tie a Small Perfection Loop so I typically ONLY loop my tippets on some really super short furled leaders I use since they have a Shorb Loop on the end. For everything else it is a Blood Knot.
I use furled leaders with shorb loops.
Clinch knot on the fly side and simple overhand knot on the leader side for the tippet.
From my expirience the failure order is as follows:
Tippet, clinch knot - and yes I have never had the overhand knot fail!!!.
I use the same method for my “regular” fishing: hook - clinch - 1 to 2 feed of fluorocarbon - overhand - snap swivel - PowerPro.
Again most of the time the leader snaps before the knots give.
The only loop to loop I use, is my butt of the leader and a mono loop I nail knotted onto the fly line. They loop together and that allows me to change leaders very quickly, IF the need so arises.
I got some furled leaders from fly goddess that I have to put a loop into my tippet to connect them to the shorb loop on the end of the leader. It is annoying tying those tiny loops in tippet for the furled leaders though.
Chris;
You are only 14 years old, right? You are using things you’ve “Read” to guide your flyfishing, not the real experiance, nor your responses. Yep, I’m on your case buddy! Get out of that “Pay as you go” pond and do some real fly fishing!
Flyandtie=Chris 14 yrs old. Sophmore in high school.
I have experience of hours and hours on the water, Does that not count for anything?
And my responses are from my experiences, why would I be a fake and a lier on here?
If they are not I say that “I heard or I read somewhere.”
I have done “REAL” fly fishing if thats what your calling it… its fun really.
But umm how am I supposed to do all this REAL fly fishing when rivers are far away, and IM 14, A.K.A Can’t drive yet!!!I would get out of that pond if I could… your telling me you wouldnt fish a perfectly good place 14 minutes away from you just because you consider it “fake”??
I use a short but section of leader joined to the line (about 6 inches) with a loop in the end. I then loop to loop connect a complete leader and tippet. I make my own knotted leaders, and often hang droppers off the double surgeons knots for wet fly and soft hackle fishing. But, if I want to dry fly, or fish a single streamer, or whatever, I don’t want the droppers hanging off but just a single line. If the tippet section gets too short, I knot it onto the leader, but I can swap out leaders depending upon conditions.
Thanks for all the discussion. To be clear, I tie my tippets onto the leader with a double surgeon’s knot. I was just wondering if there would be any advantages to attaching tippet to leader by means of a loop connection. Reasons it may be beneficial, I can tie a perfection loop or surgeon’s loop in much less time and with less fuss than the double surgeon’s knot, and attaching loop to loop is faster.
What would be the performance issues?
What I’ve heard so far 1) may increase wind knots or snags, 2) it’s not traditional.
Any others? How would it affect turn over or laying out? Are fish more likely to see the loop to loop?
I may give it a try next time I go fishing just to see and report back here.
another performance issue, When it’s windy the loop to loop is wayyy more wind resistant!!! that is why I only use one of them to change leaders.
and the fish might see the loop-loop but people who use it catch fish so, I doubt it matters that much. especially when there is about 2ft of tippet from that loop-loop and your fly.
