I don’t follow your math. but where would you reduce the markup to make this rod less expensive?
Rich
rich, at the dealer. by the time it reaches the consumer that rods been marked up 400%. And one can argue storage and shipping, and store front, etc. etc., but it costs just as much to ship and store a $45 rod as a $450 rod. So let’s say a rod cost the manufacturer $100 to make. He sells it to the dealer for $200. I think $300 would be reasonable. At that price I would treat RonMt to one!
Maybe the rod is delivered to your door by a half-nekkid supermodel or a pro athlete?
I understand your thought here. here is the deal the MFG. has 100.00 at risk and you think itis ok to sell to the dealer at 200.00 understanding that he only builds what he has preseason orders for (plus a few. and the dealer has 200.00 at risk and no clue if it will sell he is betting 100% on the come is that fair to him. think about it as if it were your money the dealer was investing with.
Rich
Breathe, ADave! Breathe!
Trouts don’t live in ugly places
To clarify, Rich Ward is outside the fly fishing business, he was a rep, he does not own a shop nor work in/for one.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
Yes, you do. But my impression is that the praise comes in connection with a slam on Abel, Sage or some other high end manufacturer. Why not leave them out of it until you’ve really got something to gripe about with them,?
JB, happily spending my money as I see fit, out.
Rich, what we have here is a failure to communicate. 
My fault, I’ll concede.
In your scenario, the cost of scrap was treated as actual material cost. You doubled then redoubled the cost of the scrap and sent that increase along to me, the buyer.
In a top-notch process quality controlled factory, the blank cost would simply be one area with reduced rework/scrap. Every step of production would realize a savings. At 4x pass through, that can amount to a pretty good chunk of change. Sadly, most American factories still base quality in inspections and test. Inspecting after processing is WAY too late to keep flaws from occurring.
Jim
I’m going to lunch and I am going to have a hamburger and frys it will cost me 5.00 plus tip lol the farmer only got 6 cents a pound for the spuds ans 70 cents a pound for the beef. lol I am a big eater but I can’t eat 5 bucks worth at 76 cents a pound.
Rich
From what I can see we have ‘some’ who feel ‘profit’ is a four-letter word.
Does anyone honestly think the fly shop or the manufacturer will stay in business if they don’t make a profit? It is called the free enterprise system. If you don’t like the product and aren’t willing to buy it it’s your choice.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
Value added is worth paying for. Are you willing to go out back and BUY the garbage the burger joint discards for $10 a pound? Waste is waste.
Jim
Ohhh DaveM you sure do like to start a thread with a bang.
Here is another thought. I don’t care how much it cost you to make something. Thats your business (pun intended). I care about the value. In fact if you can make a $600 rod for $100 dollars rather than $150 all the better for you. Doesn’t matter to me. So the questions are what should a rod be worth and how much are we willing to pay.
For me, I cannot tell the difference between a good rod and a great rod, or the difference that I detect is negligable. So I, and it sounds like you, are both better off buying the $200 rod rather than the $600 rod. If you can tell the difference and it is more than minor, then the additional performance or less wear and tear on your body or the love of the beaurty of the object helps create its value. If a beautiful painting can be worth $600, then why not a beautiful rod.
All that aside, I have owned some high end rods and they were not worth it to me. I sold them and am hapy to live with rods for which I paid $150 - $200.
To all I say, find your price point where you get the best bang for your buck and go for it.
jed
Jim no one wants to pay for waist but we do it in every thing made. the farmer got 70 cents a pound for the cow when he sold it to the butcher who dressed the cow and discarded aout half of what he payed for in guts and hide and we can go on from there The fact is the last person that buys anything pays for everything from the ground up. and I am cool with that in the rods if you could reduce the waist to 0 from 10% it would reduce the cost of materal 2.00 makeing the rod sell for 16.00 less at retail
Rich
John, in this thread i mentioned no brand names, and if you read my original post i merely asked what makes a piece of graphite worth $700. Inquiring minds want to know.
Rich Ward had done a good and honest job of explaining cost structure.
Correct again. I was associating this thread with some others in which you’d commented about the anodization of Abel reels and the costs associated with that. If I misinterpreted your original post, I apologize.
Regards,
JBB
Pardon the spelling but what about the surcharge added to the retailer delivery costs to cover the increase in fuel costs for the delivery company?
Eric “nighthawk”
Your attitude determines your altitude!
I was hopeing to show it is not an exorbinate price at all it is simply not easy for a US company to compete with import rods NOW that said less expensive rods have made it easier for a person to get started or made it easier for a person to have a selection of rods and the import companys are doing a great job of copying the US rods. I do feel better about suporting a US Company that pays US emploies and I am willing to pay for that in most cases. NOT ALL
Rich
I have a friend that manages a fly shop. He is kind enough to bring the latest and greatest in spey rods with him for me to test in exchange for a trip fishing. The last time him and I went fishing he brought 3 brand new rods that weren’t available for retail yet. There retail price was around $800.00 each. I absolutely loved the rods. One in particular was a casting dream. Even without tuning the line I was able to cast this one rod for some considerable distance. Now, would I buy one? Not yet but I will in the future. Do I think it is worth the $800.00 price tag. Sure. I can’t get this rod for any price less then the $800.00 unless I buy a used one, which might be an option for me. Why would I buy a rod for $800.00? First off I like the rod and as far as I am concerned no other rod cast like this one. Secondly, I want it and thirdly I can afford it. If you don’t like spending $800.00 for a rod, don’t. If you see me on the river making 120 foot casts when ever I please with little to no effort with my $800.00 rod, don’t bug me about how much it costs. You can show me you can do the same with your $250.00 rod if you think it will make any difference with me but I will tell you now it won’t.
[This message has been edited by Kerry Stratton (edited 01 June 2005).]
Kerry what was it I might be a player
Rich
D- The reason I read your posts at all is because I try and read the whole board each day if I can. Keeps me up on thing’s.
The way I get it is that you and the others would not agree to the price of any rod or reel if it cost over the price range that you have set in your minds.
I see all the things you and the others list and the profit made in a rod or reel but I do not see were you let the shop owner make a profit at all. You just gripe about the high prices to the public. The shop owner has to pay for the building, tax’s, his help, advertising, all the goverment bull crap and on and on. God I just hate to see anyone make a few bucks being in buisiness. You need to stop shopping at your local fly shops then you can buy the rods direct from the company for a little better price. But remember that you will not be able to cast those rods before you buy them and you will not have someone to complain to or BS with Or take the rod or reel back to and get it replaced the sameday. But what the heck you can buy before you fly right? Oh by the way if you think just fly tying material will keep a shops doors open you had best think again.
It is my understanding that over 100 shops will fail this year alone. Maybe the one in your area. But heck you can get all your gear on-line or from Wal-Mart. Besides it is cheaper that way.
OH! and one other thing that no one has talked about is the money the rod and reel companys get stuck for when shops go out of business. Big bite right there. I was just told of someone going out and sticking one company for over 5 grand. And that shop had great credit to. I wonder what you would charge if things like that happened to you.
I also didn’t see were anyone talked about the 8 to 10 or so percent that any sporting goods manufacture has to pay right off the top before they can make a penny. It is called the Robertson Pitman Act. Seems that is an easy one to miss. And this is before they make a cent off of anything they make. The Feds are great aren’t they.
I do not think anyone could explain anything to someone with a mind set like you have. You see I do not believe that you will ever understand the right of an American Company to charge what it pleases for it’s products. If they do not have your price tag on them you will complain about them with your last breath. I think it is something that you like to do because you some how feel they have screwed you or someone else? I sure don’t understand it but hey no sweat off my forehead.
Someone above thought you were doing a great job warning new people on the bad aspects of buying expensive equipment. Well I don’t know about that one as almost all of the people I see getting into fly fishing do not buy top end gear. They buy toward the bottom end of the price range. When they get into it deeper then they will buy more expensive equipment. But that is just what I have seen over a lot of years.
You know I don’t always buy top of the line Rods and reels either. I have several of the mid price range reels and rods and they are fine. But I do not see a reason that someone can’t buy or own a more expensive rod or reel if they have a mind to. And every company has the right to build them to. If you don’t want to buy them for what ever reason that is fine to. But it is almost getting to the point of and old lady gripping over the back yard fence with you. If you stopped you would probably blow up. Ron