I get a fly fishing catalog in the mail yesterday, and it is loaded with only overpriced items, including production rods selling for $700. If there is ANYONE who can explain to me what makes a piece of graphite worth $700, please do. I’m perplexed.
Dave
I think you need to erase the word ‘production’ from your vocabulary. I’m sure those rods are worth every penny. Picture in your mind, someone lovingly rolling that graphite on the mandrel. Then with gentle hands, fitting the grip and reel seat. Ah! But lest we foreget the nimble fingers placing each guide just so and wrapping them one by one. How can you put a price on something like that? You can’t. However, afix the manufactures name on the rod and voix la ! Price less! Or in this case, $700.
evil dave, you’re right! i’m selling the rolex to buy one of those rods!
Hey DM,
If anyone was gonna explain the virtues
of a $700 rod, I would think you’d be well
placed to do so. The environment and
fishery you frequent has got to be among the
most demanding around. That you have been
able to survive this long without one and
produce a weekly column on your fishery at
the same time leads me to believe that #l,
you are very good at making the most of what
you have, or #2, the high zoot rods might be
a bit over rated. I begrudge noone whatever
shiney bits make them feel good and put a
grin on thier chin, but I too would like to
see an explanation of how they might benefit
from one, and how anyone can justify that
price for a production run of mass produced
graphite sticks. I have seen the responses
to these threads from those that like them
and consider them good value, but I have not
seen an explanation of what makes them worth
the extra tariff. What will they do that
the $400 rod’s want, or even the mid range
TFO’s? There in lies the mystery as I see
it. Warm regards, Jim
Thanks Jim. Tell you what, if anyone is willing to send me one of those $700 rods I’d be happy to give it the test.
I fish a $200 diamondback that i won in a raffle. It has a lifetime guarantee. On good days I throw the entire line. What more do i need it to do?
Well, Dave…How 'bout the new Abel vise that’s selling for $700.00. It’s a must have! Hand painted in your favorite fish colors, it must turn out better flies, huh?
Trouts don’t live in ugly places
Dave,
I’m really just, at best, an average flyfisher, so I’m probably not qualified to say much. I look at “high dollar” rods as I look at cars…will a Mercedes or Cadillac do more of the basic function than, say, a Honda?..I don’t think to a measurable degree in relation to how much more they cost, but if someone has sacrificed enough to be able to afford those rods (or cars), & wants 1 (or more),I say “Go for it!”. We all have different wants & needs…that’s why there are so darned many rod makers out there.
If some one was to explain it to your sadisfaction would you buy one?
Rich
i’d buy two
make that three
If I had the money I would buy you one if you would just stop Griping about the price of equipment. I do believe everyone on this board knows how you feel about expensive equipment by now? Is there a reason that you feel you have to keep up the banter on it? We all know you would not be caught dead with a rod or reel that cost over about $50.00 at your discount prices. Jezzzzz
Ron, buddy, it’s the sound off board! I’m not allowed to voice my opinion about outlandishly priced equipment? I’m sorry if someone is making you read my posts–tell me who it is and i will make them stop!
But if you do buy me a $700 rod, I will stop complaining! I promise! or even if you can explain why a rod could be worth so much, i’ll stop.
[This message has been edited by D. Micus (edited 01 June 2005).]
RonMT, I see D. Micus performing a public service.
On the one hand, he is letting people know, especially newcomers, that you can enjoy the sport and be successful without bankrupting the family.
On the other hand, he occasionally points out really nice high-end gear for those who are interested.
Jim
I think where the confusion lies and frustration, at least on my part, is that here you have all these different rod manufacturers. Some making rods in the U.S. and some making them off shore. Each claiming to make a great rod for the money. Some priced less. Some priced more. Now all things being equal, what benefit could I possibly get, if I had bought a rod for $700(from an American company) as opposed to the St Croix Legund Ultra that I paid $260 for?
Remember, there are a number of rod companies that are sponsors here. And I would bet that someone from their company reads what’s posted here from time to time. So here is my challenge to rod designers of those companies. And not rod reps. Please post why you feel your rods are better and why you charge what you do. All things being equal choose your top of the line rod.
Fair enough?
Then I will try Please bare with me as I am dislexic and very slow and can’t spell.I don’t know the brand of the rod I don’t know if the blank has a glass or carbon schrem, it makes a 6X differance in cost of material. about 10.00 VS 60.00 a pound 30-50 ML. mod. The preformance of a blank is determined by only 1 thing horse power to weight. the lighest blank in X stiffness is always the winner in preformance. this is an absoult in rods. and hold true in all actions! so with that in mind lets buid a rod with a carbon schrim and 50 mil. the rejection on a blank like this is 3 times that of glass schrim so the co. will loose about 10% to seconds. or 1 in 10 will never be a rod. a new rod will requier new mandrels and hours of R&D to get it right A big expense up front. if it is a 4 section rod 4 mandrils. we are going to use strobles best real seat and Titamum guides. We will give the first 10 rods to outdoor writers we have in our pocket at no charge and sell all the rest at 50% off. labor for this rod will be (us) 10.00 per hour about 4 hours
Materal cost for blank 20.00 (including 10% losses)
apointments 50.00
labor 40.00
cost of Business per rod including advertizing 20.00
cost of R&D 10.00 per rod (based on 1000 sold)
cost of money at bank 1.00 per rod.
rod tube and sock 5.00
life time no fault 10.00
cost 156.00
markup to dealer 156.00
cost to dealer 312.00
retail 624.00
Rod built off shore No R&D (copy US Rod)
30 ml. material with glass schrim 3.50
apointments med quality 10.00
labor 8.00
advertizing 5.00
R&D 0
cost of money 1.00
rod tube and sock 3.00
import tax and shiping 10.00
no fault 5.00
cost 45.50
markup to dealer 45.50
cost to dealer 91.00
retale 182.00
it has been a while since i was in manufactureing so I’m sure things have gone up for both.
Rich
Dave et al.,
No one’s twisting your arm to buy one. Why do you feel you need or deserve a justification for the price? If believing you are a bit smarter than the rest for not believing everything the manufacturers claim makes you feel good, then so be it. Instead of such angst over being ripped off by some tackle manufacturers, why don’t you take a crack at extolling the virtues of solid-performing, moderately-priced equipment? You’ll probably feel better in the end. What do you think?
As to confusion over the differences between a $200 rod and a $700 rod, does anyone really believe they are going to get a satisfactory answer from an internet bulletin board? What ever happened to the mantra that’s preached so regularly on the main board, to wit, “Try Before You Buy”? Maybe, instead of relying on word of mouth, a trip to the fly shop to cast some rods would help a prospective purhaser make up his mind. Then, at that point, the purchaser can say with some confidence, “I tried 'em both, and damned if that $700 rod didn’t feel great. So, I bought it.” What a concept, free will.
JB
I’m betting if you put that latest and greatest scrim into a Pacific Rim factory with rigid quality feedback systems, the scrap rate would plummet. Why should I pay for someone’s inability to properly manufacture a product?
Jim
PS, go check out iespell. It’s free. And usually catches even typos.
ok, rich, i think you are pretty accurate. so, following your pricing structure, the $700 rod cost the dealer $350 and cost $175 to make. so shipping from the factory to the dealer cost $525. Now i get it! 
And John, i regularly extol the virtues of ll. bean, albright, et al.
[This message has been edited by D. Micus (edited 01 June 2005).]
you will still have the losses and even if you did not have any losses it would only bring down the rod price at retail 20.00
Rich
By my count, there are 8 rod companies that are sponsors here on FAOL. I didn’t include Ron Kusse or Hexagraph. Rich please forgive me but you are biased since you are shop owner and probably push rods from one or two companies. Nothing wrong with that.
But, I’d really like to hear from the companies themselves. Tell us what goes into the manufacturing of your top of the line rod and why you charge what you do and why you believe your rod is worth the price over the competition. And if you want, send a demo of your top of the line rod in a 9’ 9wt saltwater version to Dave Micus, for an honest unbiased test. Dave may be a cheap bastard, but he is honest.