As I build up layers of permagloss on my wraps, I have little defects over some of the thread – such as where the thread was pulled back under the wraps to finish the wrap.
Can these areas be sanded down after several layers of Permagloss have been built up?
Also, what is used to clean up Permangloss – acetone??
Yes you can lightly sand those imperfections out with either one of tow or three methods. I use 2000 or 2500 grit sandpaper from the automotive parts stores. I cut thin strips of it, glue it to wooden hobby sticks, and wet sand the imperfections LIGHTLY…too much and you can get into the threads and you have a real mess on your hands. another method is to use a mixture of paraffin oil mixed with pumice or rotten stone powder to make a paste and that works well too. just make sure that you remove all of the residue prior to recoating.
One of the things you can do to virtually eliminate those imperfections is to use a very very smooth burnishing tool after you wrap and to use an alcohol lamp to remove dust, fuzzies and other things that may cause a lump in the finish. Secondly, if you are wrapping with silk, wrap the silk directly to the rod from the spool rather than running the thread through a tensioning device as that will definitely cause some fuzzing of the silk thread. My tensioning device applies ther pressure directly to the ends of the spool rather than to the thread…works for me!!
Clean up with acetone, and prior to what I have read in some other forums, the acetone will not thin the Permagloss it will ruin it if you try. Been there, done that!! Also, after you clean your brush in the acetone, dry it on a paper towel and reclean it in denatured alcohol to remove the acetone residuals…makes the brushes much softer that way
Thanks dleo – I have followed your advice before and things have worked out well.
This is my first try with Permagloss – before I always used Flex Coat light and would apply and flame the epoxy before moving to the next wrap – this eliminated bubbles, made the epoxy flow and made for a smooth finish.
This Permagloss - after 4 coats is still not what I consider a smooth finish. Hopefully, it will reach that level of smoothness that I could get with the flex coat.
any other suggestion are welcome.
Not to be a smart aleck, but I would dump the Permagloss and go back to Flex Coat. Between your post on Permagloss and Betty’s U40 dilema, I’m digging in more firmly and not venturing from my proven Flex Coat and Flex Coat Lite. I’m sure that these other products have their place, and they probably do a bang-up job if you hit the nail square on the head, but it appears that if you don’t do it perfect the first time, then there are significant repercussions that follow. From day one I have not had a single problem with any new rod or repair done with the Flex Coat products, so I think I’ll leave well-enough alone. Perhaps you should consider doing so as well, or get some tutoring on these alternate finishes so you don’t end up with more work. Those products act like a high-maintenance spouse or a finicky bird dog.
Remember, you asked! That’s my 2 cents.
Joe
You make a pretty good point Joe but I have seen just as many issues with the FlexCoat. In my opinion one is just as good as the other. I prefer the Perma Gloss because it requires no mixing, takes a few more coats but it dries much quicker and does a bang up job.
Permagloss will NOT be smooth like typical two-part thread finishes. As you ‘build up’ the depth, it will ripple and have the dumbbell effect. If you are looking for a super smooth finish with high gloss, go back to a more traditional finish. Permagloss is a one-part urethane … while it is thin, hard, flexible, etc. it is not designed for what you are trying to do. The idea behind it is to use just enough to wet out and protect the threads … ultra thin application.
I know you are a talented and respected rod builder, but after reading TampaJim’s comments, would you have any pics showing the final product on a rod using multiple coats of Permagloss to validate your argument? I’d like to see the results in comparison to a single coat of Flex Coat shown here. Wraps were burnished and fuzzies singed with a butane lighter prior to coating being applied.
Thanks,
Joe
Thank you all for your suggestions.
I wanted to try the permagloss once and I do like the ease of application – no mixing and dries quickly rather than a day for each application.
This rod won’t be all that bad – Black thread with gold accent bands --and I’ll keep adding permagloss until I am satisfied with the look.
I’ll wait and reserve my judgement until I’m finished as to whether I’ll use it again or not.
By the way, could flexcoat be added over the permagloss?
Thanks again.
Yes you can add flex coat over the top of Perma Gloss but make sure you give it at least 24 hours of full cure to prevent any issues.
Leo,
That is beautiful finish on the rod and wraps, and I’m sure there were several coats of Permagloss to achieve that look. I guess if you don’t mind spending the time applying multiple coats, there’s not a lot of difference in the look of the final product between the two finishes. Granted, the rod you are showing has the finish on the blank as well as the wraps, so the look is even more impressive than just coating the wraps. My thought process is that the more coats of finish that are applied, the more opportunity to get contamination in the finish (i.e. ambient airborne dust), which must be dealt with to achieve that perfect look. Not everyone is able to provide a dust free environment when coating their wraps.
Thanks for sharing the picture.
Joe
Thanks Joe, the rod was dipped as it was a sanded blank from Lamiglas. The wraps have around 8 or 9 coats maybe on them to achieve the flat look instead of the build that is usually associated with epoxies. Personally, i haven’t experience what TJ is talking about as far as rippling and a dumbbell effect and I really won’t argue which is best for anyone but me, quite pointless to say the least. I will say that anyone can achieve a nice finish look either way one decides to go, guess that is why God made Apples and Oranges! do I every use Flex Coat, sure, but not on glass or boo.
As far as what it is intended to do, here is a Q & A from the U-40 web site. As you can see, UV protection qualities are minimal. so it’s use on certain threads is questionable.
PERMAGLOSS
Q. Can I use Permagloss to coat the entire rod?
A. Yes. Permagloss is intended to coat the entire rod, not just the thread guides. Proper preparation of the blank surface is essential prior to coating, a process far to lengthy to go into at this point.
Q. How many coats does it to take to seal a thread wrap?
A Actually, one coat will seal the threads. You probably will want sufficient coats to create a smooth surface wherein no threads can be detected when scratching with a finger nail. It takes about 5 coats on the norm to pass the finger nail test. This is assuming A thread and no CP.
Q. My Permagloss always sets up in the bottle, what can I do to make it last longer?
A Permagloss cures by exposure to moisture in the air. Keeping its exposure to air at a minimum is the only remedy. We are currently looking at other packaging, in an effort to ease this problem. Packaging in cans looks promising for the future.
Q. Will Permagloss prevent colors in the threads from fading?
A No. Quite the contrary. Permagloss is so clear it has no UV barrier qualities. It will never be effected by UV itself, but the threads or any other surface under it must be UV resistant or they will be effected.
BTW, here is a way to get 100% out of a bottle of Permagloss without it curing in the bottle.
Once you have opened it, throw away the plastic cap and use a metal Testors paint cap instead. Then place the sealed bottle into a disposable plastic container (Ziploc Twist N Loc) with several desiccant packet from vitamin bottle, etc. You will no longer have the first issue with wasted finish.
Permagloss cures via moisture. So open the bottle, remove what you need via eyedropper into another SOLID container (no plastics) and reseal imediately via the instructions above.
There are many finishes on the market. My favorite is a product called Diamondite - it is a two-part finish, but not a epoxy. It is extremely thin … one hour work time, one hour cure time once heat activated, ultra clear, 100% UV resistant - zero yellowing, excellent leveling, great penetration, etc. The best part is that it contains NO amines … so no allergic reactions like most epoxy. It is different to work with and anyone interested in giving it a try, please PM me or e-mail me first for instructions.
IMO, the real trick to a perfect finish is to pick one and learn the aspects of application. Don’t constantly change or you will never get where you need to be. Also, epoxy is like food … don’t play in it, put it on and let it do its thing - it will level on its own, believe it or not.
TJ -