Might you be fishing in eastern Idaho??
Posted a trip report on it last week. Actually “local” is relative since it’s 50 miles away, but it’s the closest stream with wild (although not native) trout. Not hotspotting or giving away any secrets here; it’s very well known and gets pounded pretty hard during the spring. Even so, CDC & Elk seems to work as a general attractor and when the caddis are coming off; also, a #16-18 dark dun version works when the little stoneflies come off in late winter. It’s not the only fly I’ll use, 'cause it’s fun to experiment (and I get bored tying the same fly over-and-over), but if I’m looking to get the smell of skunk off, it’s usually number one out of the box.
Regards,
Scott
I haved some complicated patterns that I ite. But I seem to use patterns that are simplier. Many of my favorite patterns have from 1 to three materials in them.
Tied some Copper Johns,but way to many steps for me. Other flies have worked as well.
Geatting tobe avery lazy tier.
Rick
Rick,
Like you, I find the effort to tie a Copper John to be somewhat of a chore.
But l like how the fly fishes, probably due to all that wire making it run deeper.
So, to catch the ‘same’ fish, I eliminate the wing case and the legs. Bead head, tail, wire abdomen, peacock thorax. Fast and works as well for me as the original. If the water is a bit off color, I’ll add one turn of pearl flash material (Sulky pearl mylar thread) through the thorax. No drop of epoxy, hansens, or knot sense to mix/let cure/drip all over. No playing with keeping the legs to the side or getting the wingcase right. Just simple, fastt, and effective.
Great bluegill fly, as well, especially fished deep in the winter.
Buddy
I like your thoughts on the Copper John Buddy. It is a complicated tie, but I think that is one of the more effective flies in terms of getting down deep. I was also wondering which steps i could skip, but retain most of its effectiveness. I have not fished it quite enough, though, to experiment like you. Depending on what the fish are seeing in the water, I was thinking that the split tail could also be left out. (Sorry Mr. Barr)
I’m very curious what color of wire you like for Bluegill, Buddy? Red? Copper?
Tie it like a brassie with a beadhead (aka, Copper Joe)
3 materials…bead, wire, herl.
I like to tie simple flies. I like to tie “purdy” flies. I like to tie complicated flies. I love to have a large arsenal of fly boxes to choose from when I fish. I do not use my best looking pretty flies to fish with. Now if I am trying to make something complicated, and the first few aren’t up to par, I don’t mind fishing them. I would probably not tie flies if all I did was the same thing over and over. I like variety, and I must have a touch of ADD because after two or three of something, I get bored. I like to have a collection of flies I have tied, and I guess it is kind of like a artistic, and creative outlet for me. Otherwise I would probably just buy the flies and be done with it. I like different colors of the same patterns too. But for fishing, hey, a Wooly Bugger is good enough for me…just tied with bead, without bead, with krystal flash…different colors…love it. But I am an obsessive collector too, and that can get me in trouble when I get into a hobby. Now I have tons of flies, and since I am always trying new stuff, I will always have tons of flies. I could fish for 3 years on the flies I have already tied, and never run out…rotfl.
YES, KELKAY! That also describes me almost exactly!
Other than for a fly swap…I can’t seem to tie 2 exact same flies back-to-back. I just GOTTA change something! Color, materials, something.
simple flies suit me best and i try to be as consistent as possible but then each insect of the same species in the same hatch is as different as each human is from the other. i think each of us should put forth out best impression and each impression by human nature is different. there is no right or wrong way there are too many variables to say one style is better than another.
Tim,
I like red or green for Bluegills, but I’ve also had a lot of luck spinning red and black together before tying…I know, another step, but it only takes few seconds to make a spun two tone length of wire…
I really beleive that what makes the Copper John type of fly so effective is the weight and the muted flash of the wire. I can live without the wing case and legs, and, as you mentioned, the twin biots for the tail. I usually use whatever black fibers are handyfor a tail, with black pheasant being the most common for me because I have a lot of it. I do use a single biot quite a bit as well.
So far the fish seem to agree.
Buddy
Well… from my perspective, imagine going to one of these fly tying expos and watching 100 tiers all tying an olive wooly bugger. All simple and effective, but don’t we all expect more for our $15 admission fee.
Buddy,
Oooh, I really like your idea of red and black together! So what sizes do you like for bluegills? And what size wire?
As for the tail, I’m sure that there might be situations where the forked tail makes a difference, but I also think that your use of tail material that gives some action to the fly could also be important at times. I bet that black pheasant works great. I’m a fan of using squirrel hair for the tail. In fact, the next modification I was considering was to use loosely dubbed pine squirrel for the thorax.
Tim,
12s and 14s mostly for the gills. I’m working on a ‘large’ wire body fly, something in the size 8 or 6 2XL range for bass and larger bluegills and crappies…still working on the design but I think it will be a decent producer.
For ‘colored’ wire I use small size ultrawire mostly, but I’m not above buying craft wire if I can find it small enough (I like 28 or 32 gauge). For the ‘plain copper’ ones I use wire taken from 14 gauge lamp cord.
When I decide to make some with the two tone twisted wire, I’ll get out the cordless drill and twist up several two to three foot lengths. Takes just a minute or so to twist one up, and it holds together better for me using the drill motor rather than hand twisting them. I’ll get a dozen or so flies from each twisted section.
Good Luck!
Buddy
Buddy,
I have one word to describe fly fishing / fly tying, “CLEVER”. Without a doubt the cleverest way to catch a fish is with a fly.
I believe that to be a statement of fact not of opinion.
Thread, feather, hair and synthetics arranged on a hook to deceive one of God’s creatures to a meal is just clever.
Fly tiers are natures counterfeiters and magicians with an unquenchable thirst to deceive and fool a trained eye of a fish.
Clever is the standard in which we measure other fly tiers. Clever is what we try to achieve to get the admiration of other fly tiers.
Flies become complicated when the tier becomes sincere in their offerings and abandon clever and offer art out of respect to the fish and the men using them.
So yea sometimes we over do it but only out of respect.
Respectfully,
Sean
I’ve watched this thread with some interest, mainly because I asked myself that same question a number of years ago. I found that I tie flys for two different reasons. First and formost is to have flies that I have confidence in that I fish with. These flies aren’t too fancy and look “plain” but they’re simple, easy to tie and effective. There is another side of me that is a bit more creative. When I’m in the mood to be creative, I’ll tie flies for how they look. It’s another way for me to express my creative streak. Those flies are made to catch the fisherman first, then perhaps some fish. You might want to ask yourself another question; If you were going to be stranded out at your local fishing hole for the next two months and the only food you were going to have to eat was what you caught, which 2 or 3 patterns would you tie up to bring along? For me it would be the simple flies. They may not look that interesting or cool to a fisherman, but that’s not who they’re tied for, their tied to catch fish. To answer your question, about 85% of my tying is simple patterns that work well for me. The other 15% is pretty patterns that I tie for me.
Jim Smith
Buddy,
Ok, I see. Even though you said it the first time, it did not sink in to my thick head that you twist the red and black together ahead of time. I was thinking you were twisting them together after you tied the two colors to the hook. Using a drill would make a nice tight twist very quickly. That’s got to be a cool looking effect. I can’t wait to try it.
I would also expect your larger wire body fly to be a good producer for bass too. I’d be interested in seeing it when you are ready to show it.
This has been a good thread… many different opinions and just as many similar. With me I’ve got to tie a half dozen fly’s exactly alike and put them in my fly box, then when I get to the river I can swap with someone to get something I don’t have rather than begging until the cows come home… After all, it’s easier to trade something than it is to beg something away from someone by whining like a five year old for someones fly. Oops… did I just give myself away?
Tim,
My “Copper John” spin-off uses copper Diamond Braid, peacock colored chenille, and a partridge collar. I first tried it at the Fish-In and the gills gobbled it up!
Zac
HairWing,
When I tie at Expos I tie wingless wet flies, wee spiders and flymphs. All are simple to tie and catch fish. Many have been doing so for hundreds of years. It always amazes me at the number of people who spend a lot of time sitting in front of me, taking notes, asking questions and watching me tie. Makes feel pretty good that folks are still interested in these simple, highly effective flies.
REE
I am tying an experimental fly. I want to trigger the fish’s instinct to strike it. So…I decided to incorporate as many of the things I have seen fish hit. Dumbell eyes, flash, herl, red/black, long rubber legs, hackle, marabou…etc. I call it the “Gemstigator” (a take off on the "Instigater fly). But I have not tried it. Probably no fish on earth hit it.
Hey Buddy. I know how yo tie assembly line style. If you have “any” extra flies/poppers…I got’s money for them.
Oh, BTW Buddy, I created a new fly the other night. Took it out yesterday with a furled leader I made out of Wally World sewing thread. Caught a monster, have a pic of the fish. Well, I don’t carry a camera or a ruler but a freind took a pic and posted it on a website. Oh, but I didn’t build the rod. Almost a coup on DIY. Anywhoooo…had another big one on but lost him, which proves the first hit was not a fluke. This is a first for me in fly tying. Guess I will name it the “First Time Ever” fly. It may exist somewhere…but I do not have the time or knowledge to search and find out. All I know is I thought of it and tied it up and caught BIG trout.
I hope I didn’t stray too far from the intent of this thread. But I really enjoy Buddy Sanders and this is one way to get to him. <grin>
I can never talk long enough to that man. He is so interesting and talented.