xi,
I’m glad you’re finally “out of the closet”, man. Keep it coming. This is good stuff.
Robert
Hi John,
IMHO BigCliff and Xi hit it dead on! I’m beginning to get to the point where my casting is very controllable and predicatable and have also been overlining some of my rods by 1 wt.
This should maybe be reconsodered however, especially given BigCliffs example! I was going for more distance and his explanation makes perfect sense!
Hmmm. Dammit…It all boils down to that same ol’ “Learn to cast properly” credo then doesn’t it!
At a recent “cast off” in a local tennis dome this winter, one of Minnesota’s best casters got hold of my sage 9’ 3wt SP loaded with 4wt SYLK line and was answering some questions for me.
He gave a few demo casts with this outfit, paused and remarked “Damn, this is one fine setup you have here”…
Again, confusion! ;-))
I’ll heed the advise given here.
Thanks,
Jeremy.
The Sylk line is known for being on the light side. This may actually mean that it is in the middle of the allowed weight range for a given line weight while the other lines on the market are at the top of the allowable range. This means that there is really only half or less of a “weight” difference between a 3wt GPX and a 4wt Sylk.
The Sylk is also of a smaller diameter, which may lead one to think that it is actually a lighter weight than it is. I think they achieved this by building it on a GSP core. I sure hope you didn’t screw up that Sylk line on that tennis court!
If stating “facts” rather than opinion were my intention, I would not have used “is known for” and “may actually mean”. Feel free to call me on it when I am stating incorrect information or opinion as though it is fact, but that is not what was done in this case.
I didn’t intend to promote the line mentioned, but rather just intended to explain the effects of the fact that a given “weight” of line is not going to have an exact weight, but just be within a range of acceptable weights.
JC, I greatly appreciate all that you have done over the years to create, support, and maintain this site. I also think that one of the biggest benefits of this site is its wealth of information, both objective and subjective, that help all of us make purchases and become better at this sport.
Thanks BigCliff. Great explanation and I appreciate it. I can’t work hard enough on my casting strokes. I really love it, especially in wintertime when it gets d–m COLD here in Mn. Still, I make “snow snakes” in my back yard!
And no, that indoor court was covered in pads like the wrestlers use. It made for a superb day in the very early spring. I’ll remember days like that when I get old and can’t fish! My definition of hell!
Thank you again.
Jeremy.
Hummm so is it a St.Croix thing or what??..lol…cause I have an older 7’6" 3wt Ledgend that I’ve been tossing a 5wt. Mastery line on for almost as long as I’ve owned the rod,and the same reel is also my reel for my Diamondback 9’ 4wt. All American.
And both of these rods seem near perfect for me and my casting stroke,On the other hand I also have a redington 9’6" 7wt that I throw a 6wt. Headstart line on and I can throw the backing knot 30ft out the tip top on the open river for smallies…So I await that article next week with great enthuseium Miss Ladyfisher…
I’ve seen Ted Leeson “recamend” (overlining) in american Angler many times…many many times in the time I was a subscriber of that publication…and I think as many a flyfisher does,that his opinion weighs heavily in mine and others decisions. Either way,I’ll not change the way I fish any of these rods…I like em just as they are 
“Wish ya great fishing”
As I think I noted in my first post I cast the St Croix LU at the “shop” for a bit before I bought it. However, after fishing it for a full day I found I wasn’t as fond of the fast action as I origionally thought. Therefore, the quick fix was to overline it - thereby slowing the action down. That seemed a better option than parking a $300 rod in the closet. Perhaps with summer [and warm weather] I’ll put the 4 wgt line back on it and spent the time and try to pick up the timing. Perhaps not. Actually it casts a 5 wgt very well. I may end up preferring it as a new 5 wgt rather than as a 4 wgt. But I don’t see any damage being done by uplineing one size. I’ve done it numerous times and have 30 + year old rods that I’ve always overlined and they show no damage. So I guess I’ll just continue as I always have.
Donald
Jeremy,
How do you like your SYLK Line???..I have a number of old Bamboo rods with the small size guides and was thinking of trying those lines on em,But I’ll admitt to being the sceptical type,as I tend to avoid “new” or “improved” things till I’ve heard positive word on there effectiveness and reliability.
,Bill
“Wish ya great fishing”
J.C. I have more trust in you and Ladyfisher than you can possibly know…lol…that said…
the overlining mentioned in the article which I’ve read and am proud to say I’ve long since learned all of those things…Patience is the one thing that I can honestly say MUST be learned…and it’ll only come with age…the only refferance I seen was of over lining in the LB.Test way…
yes if lined to heavily and jarred with alot of overpowering then I can see where there can be a risk of rod failure…but a line size over is not the end of the world,Nore is it going to hurt unless one is very heavy handed and over powering on the cast…
I’ve had a rod or two break, abnd yes as I read the article I seen where I’d failed with a very large Rainbow trout on…thank goodness for warrenties my 7’6 St.Croix ledgend survives to this day.I did’nt bow to her,but she was no sooner on and shot out of the water on the hookset (snap)!!!
“Wish ya great fishing”
I feel I should post an update on the St Croix LU rod - an 8’ 4 wgt - that I was uplining. This week has been too cold and windy for fishing but has been warm enough to spend some time in the backyard cleaning up the wife’s flowerbeds and casting the LU rod [in between wind gusts of 35 mph!!]. I’ve picked up the timing on the rod and now find it very pleasant to cast with the 4 wgt line. Perhaps the first trip of the season when we’re reaaaalllly anxious to catch that first fish of the year isn’t the best time to break out the new rod you haven’t cast much!! G
However, still think it’s worthwhile to try a line size on either side of the marked line if you’re having problems casting. Just my thoughts.
Donald
Tis’ alright,J.C. …Would like to thank you for having and keeping this site so well…where you find the time to keep abreast of things as well as you do is beyond me…and still have time on the water that is…lol…This is “THE” most Informative Flyfishing site I’ve ever seen on the web.It’s become my happy place (off the water)and I do very much enjoy everything about FAOL,Thanks,Bill
Maybe it’s my lack of casting skills or maybe it’s psychological, but I overline frequently depending on whether or not I’m satisfied with the perfomance of my rod. I don’t buy this one-size-fits-all stuff. I look at the #weight rod as merely a recommendation and start with that line weight. If I don’t feel I’m getting maximum performance for my casting style, then I start experimenting and settle on the line weight that gives me the most distance with the least amount of effort. Most of the time I don’t overline, but of the 20 plus rods I own, I overline on 6 of them.
This isn’t going to be a ‘popular’ statement, but - an experienced caster can make any rod perform. In case you didn’t read Tom Kirkman’s article, overlining is a very common cause of rod failure.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Arial”>quote:</font><HR>
Pay attention to the line you use on any rod.
The line should always be the weak link in the chain, not the rod. Using a higher line test [OVERLINING] than recommended and
applying maximum pressure with it can easily
break a rod.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you feel you must overline a rod for it to perfom to your requirements, sell the rod and get one that works. Or just maybe, take a casting lesson.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
LF - I find it difficult to accept that you’d be concerned about having an “unpopular opinion”. G Furthermore, I agree with you that an experienced caster will be able to adjust to just about any action. In my “defence” tho the LU is a much faster rod than I am used to using. I just needed to get to “know the rod”. I didn’t take that time while I was fishing. Did later and I really like the rod now.
Your other suggestions are certainly valid but may cause some problems for those members located “out in the hinderland”. Selling a rod may be problematic. Money may be a problem. For several years after I “learned” flycasting the only people to ask for a casting lesson was my uncle [who taught me] and the man who taught him! They were the ones that introduced the bad habits I already had! For some, overlining will make a poor rod usable until it can be replaced. I agree wholeheartly that you should cast a a rod B4 you buy - but for some that isn’t possible.
New flyfishermen today have it so much better - access to this board and others like it, several books written on casting and flyfishing in general and, for warmwater flyfisherman, books dealing with panfish and bass - not trout tactics that must be “adopted” to their fishery.
'Nuf about dat. I’ll get offen my soapbox!
Donald
Ok…it’s me…“Mr. Ignorant”, and my take is that if I like a good product & trust the company enough to lay out $200 or $300 (or more), I’m gonna use what they recommend. Then I’m gonna learn to use it properly (I hope!). Obviously, I’m no expert, and that sometimes can be an advantage. I guess I envision it (in a highly exaggerated sense) as either repeatedly “deadlifting” a guppie or a 2 pound fish with the same rod. Seems pretty obvious that, as said before, either will put stress on the rod, there is no question which puts more. Unlike humans, rods don’t grow muscles with exercise.
“This has been one idiot’s opinion.”
Mike
Ouch!! Lady Flyfisher, that one hurt? I already admitted to a probable lack of casting skill, but hey, I have a lot of fun expermenting with line weights to my personal taste. I’ve never broken a rod during the casting motion, which might also be an indication that I’m not using the rod properly. I’ll work on that. Thanks!
When Mr. Kirkman refers to “putting maximum pressure” on an overlined rod would that occur during the cast or when fighting a fish? Asked another way, can I damage a rod by casting a higher line weight or does the danger come only when fighting fish or are both activities potentially dangerous to the rod?
I am not saying this with any intention of contradicting above posts in any way, but I think that the “overlining” mentioned in the article was not as specific as we are taking it to be.
I think he meant this term to also be applied to lines used on spinning and casting rods. With the increasing use of “superlines”, it has become common for a lure fisher to use 30lb test GSP on a rod intended for 8-17lb line, due to the line’s small diameter. I would be willing to bet that this form of overlining has caused much more rod breakage than bumping up to a higher weight fly-line has.
I took his mention of that in the article to mean that you shouldn’t fish 12lb tippet on your 1wt rod and expect to be able to horse a 10lb carp as hard as your manly arms can without breaking the rod. I think that is much more likely to cause that rod to fail than fishing it with a 2wt line all the time.
Bigcliff…Thats exactly what I had gotten out of the artical…the exact part L.F. had quoated…still sounds as though he was spicfically talking of pound test…not grain wt…
I’m not saying that grossly overloading with a heavier line is’nt going to cause rod failure…far as that goes tossing heavier/larger flies can have the same effect…say a 1 wt and larger bass bug…I’ve done worse…Orvis is a very kewl company to deal with…but to that end they had just changed ferule systems and they said it was their fault reguardless of what fly I was casting…I know better
“Wish ya great fishing”
BigCliff,
Funny you should mention “superlines”…I had actually wondered about those. I use spinning/baitcasting tackle “maybe” twice a year anymore, but my standby there has & always will be “Clear Blue Stren”.
Mike