Has anyone here been to any of the Orvis fly fishing schools. Just started looking into them and was looking for input from anyone with experience.
Joe,
The quality of any school, Orvis or otherwise, depends on the quality of the instructors. I have worked as an instructor at both Orvis and LL Bean schools, and found myself in the midst of some very fine instructors in each case. LL Bean requires FFF certification for their instructors, and I did feel that the level of instruction was higher, certainly with the casting portions, at Bean because of that. Bottom line is that you will learn a lot at a school like this, especially if you are new to fly fishing. Yes, there are certainly less expensive options out there for instruction, a Fish-In being a great example. But the school setting is more formal and there is a set curriculum. I think some folks, myself included, learn more in a structured setting like this. Just my opinion.
Really? How so? As for the “Orvi$” bit, I’ve got no issue with a company trying to make a buck. As far as I know, that’s what businesses do - make money.
I’ve also heard the comment before that the FFF is all about money. I’m curious - why do you believe this? I can tell you this - the FFF instructors I know put in hundreds of hours of volunteer time teaching folks to cast and fly fish. Most of them are casting nerds who teach because they love fly casting and they love to teach fly casting. And if you’re talking about the FFF as an organization being all about money, well, I guess I disagree. I happily pay my dues and recertifcation fees. Not many organizations I know run sans money. And I have received far more from my affiliation with FFF than I will ever pay in dues or fees.
Wow, not quite the response I expected at first. Guess I should clarify my motives a bit. I’ve been fly fishing for years, got my first tying kit when I was 12 or 13, first fly rod 6 months after. I’m 21 now, and entirely self taught. Believe me when I say I’ve read more than enough on fly fishing in general to bump me out of the beginner bracket. But you can’t learn everything by reading. I know there are plenty of ways to get casting/fishing tips. Hire a guide, go get a casting lesson at the local shop, fish-ins, just ask for help from local members. I asked about the Orvis school because there happens to be one not to far away that has a session shortly after my finals/birthday so I figured it might be a nice kick-off to my summer break. I was just curious if anyone has any experience with them. The cost isn’t bad for 2 days of instruction that might fill in any blanks I’ve missed over the years, but they sound like complete intro/beginner schools so I was hoping to hear if anyone with some experience attended one and thought it was worthwhile. The fact that Orvis is “all about money” doesn’t seem entirely true when you look at the gear they produce but I guess it could be true on the schooling end since I don’t have any experience with it. Maybe if some other companies focused on good business management on top of customer service and quality products they’d still be around. That’s a discussion for a thread in the SOUND OFF forum though. I’m just asking if people think the schools are worth it.
Yep, you’re right. Kind of got carried away there and hijacked your thread. My apologies.
To answer your question, I think you would be better served spending your money elsewhere. Sounds like you have a fair amount of experience, and these schools are definitely geared toward beginners. I suggest you do those other things you mentioned - finding opportunities to spend some time with experienced anglers (Fish-ins, etc.), maybe get a private casting lesson or two to move that part of your game up another level, and consider a guided trip on a local water. Pick your guide’s brain and get him to help you fill in those blanks. The schools are great, but I suspect you are probably beyond that at this point. Best of luck!
i believe trout fishing schools are great value, but then i started as a complete beginner. y’know, you could call and ask. find out how to contact the person who will actually run the school, be honest with that person about your own fishing, and see what s/he says. some schools are more flexible than others; most have enough instructors to go around. your own tolerance for sitting through lessons on something you know a little bit about is also part of the equation. i wound up doing the second day of my trout school over again, and learned much more the second time.
If you want to become a brain surgeon, go to school. If you want to learn to fish, GO FISH. It ain’t brain surgery ( as some would like you to believe)
Mark
You have not exactly explained why you want to take a school, fill in the blanks, not sure what you mean. Orvis schools and FFF schools are excellent. I am an instructor, have been for well over 20 years. I teach from beginners to advanced. If you called a qualified instructor and explained what you want to accomplish any good instructor would customize to meet your needs, evaluate your skill level and advance from there.
The bottom line is…any solid instruciton will help anybody. I attended a casting class after years of flyfishing, simply because I wanted to see omething formal…somthing I may be missing. I can honestly say that session didn’t teach me much of anything about “casting”…but the instructor did show me something he did on “pickups”. Something I adopted & still use today. Everybody has the capacity to learn:^) As with tying…a good solid foundation is the best start. Either by a knowledgable mentor…or an instructor.
Well said.
Except for very few individuals, every fly fisher can improve from proper instruction. I am one who believes that fishing alone can improve some skills such as reading water, wading, fighting fish. But other skills such as casting, specialty nymphing, mending, curve casting, knowing what cast to use and when to use them are better taught by instruction and practice.
Golf and fly fishing have a lot in common in that regard. Even the best golfers practice before, during, and between tournaments. My belief is that you have about as much chance of becoming a great golfer by just golfing without practice and instruction as a fly fisher has of becoming a great fly fisher by just fishing. I also believe that to become better you need proper instruction. Otherwise you are just reinforcing your mistakes.
To improve, you need to practice properly; to practice properly, you need proper instruction.
this is the most absurd reply i have ever read on this board.
There is a big difference between teaching someone to cast and teaching someone how to fish.
One takes instruction and practice. the other involves the former plus experience and wisdom – that comes from doing.
Fly fishing can be confusing, complicated, mechanical and difficult. Or it can be fun, simple, uncomplicated – whatever you want it to be. Afterall, you are just trying to outsmart a stupid fish. What is great fisherman?? you decide. Is the guy who casts the furthest, catches the most fish, fishes great waters or the farm pond, has the most expensive gear, nicest vest, you decide. If you are happy with what you have and what youre doing, then you are a great fisherman.
If you can cast but want to do it better-- then I would absolutely go with an FFF master instructor – they shouldn’t try to change your cast to something totally different as they should take your cast and make it work better. I don’t know why the previous post is so down on FFF or Orvis. I am a big believer in you get what you pay for but you better know what you are buying. I have spent two days in a FFF class with master instructors - and although I thought I was a good caster before attending, I learned I wasn’t and therefore I learned more about casting – and how to analyse and instruct people than I ever thought there was to learn. For me, well worth the money. Again, this was casting and not fishing.
I have no experience with an Orvis class but they tend to be a quality organization and I would expect the same for the class. See if they teach what you want to learn before you sign up. Having said that, I would imagine (don’t know for sure) they are more oriented to the total beginner and not necessarily the novice or advanced fly fisher.
Don’t be too harsh on Steven. He is probably a curmudgeon like me and is stirring the pot. 
I think most of you are still missing the point of the question. I was just looking for anyone with experience with the Orvis schools. I am well aware of how proper instruction can improve my fishing, that was not the point. I’m not asking where to get instruction, just asking if the schools are worthwhile and this can really only be answered by people with first hand knowledge. I was just hoping to hear what to expect from someone who’s been through it. Calling to ask the person in charge is sound advice, but I’d prefer first hand experience from the students end. I’m in college, I’ve had plenty of professors who think they teach something well only to have other students tell me to avoid them at all cost. It doesn’t sound like anyone that’s posted has been to one put on by Orvis so I guess I’ll have to decide if I want to find out for myself.
Just a few things that keep coming up:
a) I live in Ohio, we don’t have a whole lot of trout fishing opportunities so as much as I’d love to get out and fish and learn, it’s just not feasible. I’ve managed to catch a few when I do have time to make the drive, but I was thinking some dedicated instruction on the subject might help shorten the learning curve.
b) Like I said more than once, I’m aware of the many possible ways to get instruction, I was asking about this specific form and anyones experience with it.
c)I’m of the school of thought that everyone can learn something. I got the idea to post the question from hanging out on some shooting forums where guys go to trainings/schools constantly and post back how the course was, what they learned, etc. Granted its a different field all together, but I was curious if I could get some answers along the same lines.
I wasn’t so much looking to go to the school simply to greatly improve my fishing, more just for an enjoyable way to spend two days and maybe learn a thing or two and get some casting tips. By fill in the blanks I meant that if you’re really invested in something, you can always learn something new about it. Might be a new approach all together, might just be a small tweak to something you already do that improves it enough to make a difference. With no formal instruction at all in the past, its possible I’m over looking something simple that could make me a better fisherman.
Again, not asking where to get instruction, just for input about the Orvis school or I guess for that matter any other fishing school you’ve been to. Thanks for all the input so far, but hopefully this post makes it more clear what I’m asking.
Steven, please take your argument to a separate thread.
This isn’t appropriate.
Paul
Well Mr. McGarthwaite, as hard as it is to ignore what you posted and not question what on earth you’re talking about, I’ll let it slide. You’re unhappy, so do something, run for office, make a difference. But this is supposed to be about fly fishing schools, which can’t possibly have any affect on your financial situation. If I’m missing the connection feel free to PM me to explain, but lets try to keep this at least remotely on topic.
I’ve heard nothing but good about the school. There is a price-point issue…but there is in all things in life…from fishing schools to hot water heaters.
The schools are excellent, especially for beginners. They start in the classroom with basic knots & fly selection, then casting then to the water. You will learn more there then reading & self teaching for years. They also have a great fly fishing school video, but I’m not sure if’s still available. I’ve looked around for mine but I must have tossed it when I dumped my VHS and went to all dvd.
Growing up, I’d always been fascinated by water. Was swimming by the age of 1, body surfing in the ocean off of Rockaway Beach, NY by the time I was 3. After moving to California, I spent 10 years swimming in the AAU and representing my high school. I learned to surf when I was 12 and continued pretty much into my early 20s.
The one thing I could never, ever do was catch a fish. No matter how many attempts, constant failure - it became a family joke. My father wasn’t much help, a reformed yeshiva bocher from Williamsburg, Brooklyn wasn’t about to teach his son about fishing.
Fast forward to 1997, I’m 34 years old and newly single.
I’m stuck in an airport in Charlotte - for 9 hours due to weather - trying to get home to Chicago. In desperation, I pick up the sports section of the USA Today. On page D1 is an article on the 10 Best Places to Fly Fish by “some guy” named Tom Rosenbauer :). It’s interesting - a bunch of places I’d never heard of or been. I didn’t know what a redfish was and prior to that day had no idea why anybody in their right mind would ever want to go to Montana.
Turning to page D2 is a shorter article listing schools to learn to fly fish. It lists names I’d never heard of: Wulff, Whitlock etc., but lists a couple that I knew: Orvis and LL Bean.
I’m sitting there, in some cr-ppy airport, divorce pending, and I decided I was going to learn to fly fish. Nobody could stop me, it was my money, and the only committment I had to plan around was visitation.
No, I had never seen The Movie (still haven’t in one sitting as a matter of fact). I just wanted to catch a fish.
I called Orvis the next day and registered for a class. Two months later I was in Manchester, Vermont. Two days after that, I knew about gear, line weights, knots, some rudimentary entymolgy, how to cast, play a fish and the basics of reading water. I added to the experience by having one of the teachers take me out for some 1:1 time on the Battenkill one evening after class (it cost me extra but was worth it).
I caught my first fish.
I left for Chicago in love with fly fishing and with about $400 worth of gear. 
A couple of years later I went back for the intermediate class. That was solely about casting and was worthwhile as well, but by that time I had gotten pretty advanced.
Whether or not the school would be helpful to you depends on your knowledge base. I would bet that the typical class would be too remedial for you and the instructors would spend less time on you than with the rank beginners. If they still have the intermediate class, that could help with your casting.
Everyday I’m astream, I thank G-d I didn’t read an article about catfish noodling.
-Steven
Loved your response Steven!!!
Over the years Orvis has added a lot to fly fishing. They are a business so they do expect to make a profit. And they do support many people with jobs.
Joe
Sounds like you’ve gotten a reply from someone who has taught at both but I guess if it was me, I would contact both Orvis and LLBean and tell them what you’re experience is and what you were hoping to get out of a school and see what they say. At Orvis, I would contact Tom Rosebauer. You might want to also contact Joan Wulff’s school and ask them the same questions. Also, ask how much does it cost and what does that cover. I would imagine transportation and boarding would be seperate. I’m 60 and it is still one of my goals to attend an Orvis school some day. My way of thinking is you’re never too old to learn.
I would stay away from any fly fishing school in Minnesota though.
Dave