Orvis does it again!

Alright. I take back every negative thing I have ever said about Orvis. It has been pointed out to me that the reason why Orvis sells things like dog beds, and Zambezi twill cotton jackets is so that they can continue to develop and market good fly fishing equipment. Still, I’ve retained a cynical view of the company, their products and their customers.

I take it all back. I was completely wrong about Orvis. Why the change of heart, you might wonder? I’ll tell you. I recently came home to my family’s home for the first time in quite a while, and I happened to come across the latest Orvis flyfishing catalog. (Spring 2005 Vol. 3) I always like to flip through fishing catalogs, and this was no different. I saw some innovative new products (Dropper Rig Fly Box, p 71) and was pleased to see that Orvis was now selling Brodin nets (p 99) - I’ve always been a fan of their nets. I smiled at the “Orvis Sporting Traditions Log Homes” (p. 147).

But, the big new product was just inside the back cover. Orvis is now offering “medical seminars” in places like Andros Island and Ambergris Cay (hosted by El Pescador, no less!) These “seminars” can be used for CME credit. CME, or Continuing Medical Education, is required for doctors in most (if not all) states. CME is a way by which doctors are expected to educate themselves about new medical treatments, medications, and general advances in the field. It is required, and is often a source of irritation for doctors, because it is usually costly and extremely boring.

Then along came Orvis. Now doctors can get their CME done in easy one-hour installments, and spend their days cruising for bonefish in the world’s best fishing grounds. And the course work looks like the medical equivalent of the basket weaving merit badge in Boy Scouts, i.e. so easy everyone can get it. If you check out Orvis’s website, (www.orvis.com/travel) you can read the prospesctus of the course, which is intended to shed like on such tricky medical issues such as diagnosing and treating traveler’s diarrhea, and how to prepare a “light yet effective traveler?s medical kit.” For what it’s worth, I was a history major, and I’m pretty sure I can diagnose diarrhea just as well as the Surgeon General. But, of course, the point is not to BORE the doctor-fishermen with tedious lecture, but to give them the opportunity to enjoy a fishing vacation, while nominally fulfilling professional responsibilities, and write the whole shebang off on their taxes as a business expense!

Ok. The folks at Orvis are just damned smart. While I read about this shocking new product, I was thinking “THIS is why Orvis is #1!” This is really cutting-edge stuff. These guys know their customers, know what they want, and are working hard to provide them with new and interesting opportunities, and are raking in the cash, while I, a lowly grad student, turn up my nose at their offerings and pretend that I am somehow better, because I buy my $500 fly rods from some other company, and our dog sleeps outside, instead of in some $200 Deep Dish Dog’s Nest. (p 137)

I don’t even know what point I am trying to make here, other than that my Orvis-bashing days are through! As soon as I get back to Colorado, I’m going to stop into their corporate store and buy something, just to show my support for this company. Whoever could have IMAGINED this crazy fishing trip / doctor school setup. I fully expect them to open a fishing lodge in Montana, where lawyers can come to fish, and at the same time, work as co-counsel on real pro bono cases. They could think about the cases during the fishing day and generate the pro bono (non-billable) hours that the state Bar Association requires! These guys are at the top of their game, and I am a proud future customer! Orvis wasn’t the jerk company, I was the jerk customer.

[This message has been edited by Jordan (edited 10 May 2005).]

Hate to disillusion you further, Jordan, but lawyers have been doing the same thing for years, not to mention the people you elected to your local schoolboards, and to your legislatures, and believe it or not, our very own congress in Wash. D.C. I know you want to tear your hair out and scream, “No say it isn’t so!” But alas, it is. There is a remedy for your dismay, however: Go fishing for a few days. You will feel better, I assure you!

When I gudied for a fly shop in West Yellowstone we had a bunch of dentests that came every year for a conference there. They would meet for an hour early each morning talking on what ever and then we would take them fishing all day. It was all a tax wright of to. Funny how those things work and that was years ago. Ron

Would it be better if the meetings were someplace undesirable and boring? Does that make the quality of the education better? How about a location where you could golf perhaps but not fish? Considering the number of formal CME hours required a year, is it bad for the courses to be in places where you can also add on a vacation for you and the wife (or family)? Are manufacturing business trips in ugly or boring places all the time? I guess I don’t understand the point?

Regards,
Keith

Jordan,

I’m with you. That’s brilliant business.

Good Luck!

Buddy


[url=HTTP://HOMETOWN.AOL.COM/RSAN2708/INDEX.HTML:e1fd1]HTTP://HOMETOWN.AOL.COM/RSAN2708/INDEX.HTML[/url:e1fd1]

Is that why no professional organization, ever hold their seminars, in Buggar Hollow, Arkansas?

As Grandpa use to say, “Oh! I see, said the blindman to the deafman, as he picked up his hammer and saw!”

~ Parnelli

Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
“Swim” said the mama fishie, “Swim if you can”
And they swam and they swam all over the dam

Boop boop diddum dadaddum waddum chew!
Boop boop diddum dadaddum waddum chew!
Boop boop diddum dadaddum waddum chew!
And they swam and they swam all over the dam

[This message has been edited by Steven H. McGarthwaite (edited 10 May 2005).]

Analogbob, you said “not to mention the people you elected to your local schoolboards”

I am on a local school board. Have been for 6 years. I get paid $0. The town next to me gets paid $1 per year. Special trips include a trip to an annual 1 day meeting. District pays the dues, my gas, my lunch money and non-education related events during the meeting = none. Don’t know any school board that is different. I think your off base on this one.

jed

Jed,

Not all of any group take “Junkets”, but I did meet members of my local school board in New Orleans on Bourbon street during one of their “fact finding” trips.

It was all paid for from tax dollars…it happens, maybe just not for you.


bubba_orvis

Money spent on fishing trips, golf outings, or other recreational “junkets” come out of private wallets. They are not tax deductable (even if you were able to tax deduct the meeting). You can only count for education time the actual hours you spent in the educational activity. If the dentists were meeting for only an hour and then fished all day, they would get 1 hour of education credits.

Regards,
Keith

The Rocky Mountain States Clinical Lab Scientists find that Jackson Wyoming is a central place to hold annual workshops. I was fortunate to attend back in the early 80’s.

Yes, we had cookouts sponsored by manufacturers hoping to influence instrument sales. And I managed to score a full day’s guided fishing on the Snake with three or four other lab managers as a no-strings gift from a salesman.

But every day was packed with seminars, workshops, classes, and instruction in new techniques, epidemiology, quality assurance, management techniqes, and the opportunity to swap ideas and horror stories with colleagues ( we didn’t call it networking - we weren’t MBA’s or otherwise afflicted with pop-psych or pop-biz yet)

While I got to do some great fishing, and some sight seeing, I attended every class and workshop I signed up for, read all the textbooks and manuals while I was there. Some of us take continuing education very seriously.

And just as an aside, since physicians and nurses were welcome to attend these workshops, I’ll point out that a session which afforded a physician or nurse 1 hour of CE afforded us only 0.1 hour of CE.


aka Cap’n Yid.

Stev Lenon, 91B20’68-'69
When the dawn came up like thunder

Did I read this right: “And the course work looks like the medical equivalent of the basket weaving merit badge in Boy Scouts, i.e. so easy everyone can get it.”

I’d be more comfortable thinking my doctor is getting his CE by learning something.

Jed,
All I can say is that you most likely live in a different state than I do, and you should be happy about that!
Analogbob–(from Penna.)

Jordan, etc.,

Is this post a troll, or are you interested in understanding this topic? The following are quotes from the Orvis website about the trip to Peru.

"TARGET AUDIENCE
Primary care physicians, specialists, emergency physicians and nurses who counsel patients regarding international travel and who themselves travel extensively or volunteer in the developing world.

Lecture Outline:
Global HIV epidemic: risk to travelers
Water disinfection
Traveler?s diarrhea
Malaria returns, part I
Travel immunizations
Food precautions for travelers
Malaria returns, part II
Finding and evaluating medical positions abroad
The expedition medical kit
Current research in wilderness and travel medicine

The activities in these seminars have been planned and implemented in accordance with the Essentials and Standards of the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education through the joint sponsorship of the Wilderness Medical Society and the Orvis medical seminar program. The Wilderness Medical Society is accredited by the ACCME to provide continuing medical education for physicians and takes responsibility for the content, quality and scientific integrity of these CME activities.

The WMS designates these educational activities for a maximum of 16 hours of Category 1 credit towards the AMA Physician?s Recognition Award. Each physician should claim only those hours of credit that he or she actually spent in the educational activity."

There is a separate charge for the education classes from the recreation.

This program is not suitable for all physicians (me for instance), but is a legitimate program with appropriate (for the target audience)course material.

Regards,
Keith

All I know is that Orvis Fishing equipment and customer service has gone way downhill in the past few years. I’m selling all of mine because of BAD customer service.

Sounds like they need to make a decision about what the company is going to do…


Ken
(303)916-2111

I haven’t bought from orvis(i won’t credit them with a capital letter!) for many years, and never will… the same stuff can be bought from several companies BEFORE they wholesale buy n put their label on. Cheap crap with expensive labelling… ypu can buy it anywhere! Just my $0.02 worth.

Andy

Jordan –
Who really cares whether you shop at Orvis or not. Sounds like you may be a bit jealous of those doctors and attorneys. I have a hard time seeing why you would care to spend (waste) the time to rant about what Orvis or any other company does in relation to continuing education classes for physicians.

Well THAT did it! I’m selling my (o)rvis stock.
With all these negative posts made after apparently extensive product and marketing strategies analysis, I see nowhere but DOWN for (o)rvis. I’m “outta”.
Perhaps (C)abellas?

Mark


I’d rather be in Wyoming!

Tax deductions on trips, by docters, professionals, or corporations taking customers fishing, are what likely makes the income for most guides. Take away the deductions, and alot of guides would be out of business, especially in Florida. Orvis is now using what guides have been depending on for years.


Steve

?The wild fish were as the wild air, no mans possession but the free gift of God." Arthur Ransome

I don’t get it. If you dislike Orvis, if you think they give bad customer service, if you think their products are “junk”, or if Orvis just causes a rash to develop in your tidy whities DON’T BUY FROM THEM. Simple. At a guess, I’d say they probably won’t miss your business.

Donald

which brings to mind Abel…kidding…

hey, the homeland security boys can have a conference in hawaii, why not docs have one in peru? at least we aren’t paying for theirs…