Is there such a thing as olive spentwing spinners on the water? I’ve only ever tied duns. I’m anticipating the fall olive hatch. I tie them in sizes 18 & 20. I think they mate over land, but do they die on the water?
Thanks
lastchance:
With the variety of species of mayflies that hatch in PA that are referred to as “olives”; nothing is absolute when it comes to the behavior of insects. Heck I’ve seen Tricos mating over a road that parallels a creek.
I carry a few generic poly wing olive spinners with me…
…just in case.
They are so easy to tie that it isn’t a big deal. I have caught a few fish on them but my bread and butter during the fall olive hatches where I fish are emergers because with the colder temps; the duns often take a while to pop. Any good emerger pattern will work; just vary the color to suit the natural.
Bamboozle: What color are the emergers? Are they dark brown, gray, olive?
last:
Even though the real bug/emerger will often times have a brownish body; my olive emergers are for the most part olive.
Funny thing is; I tie 98% of my BWO dries with a grey body and olive hackle since most of the “olives” I encounter are more grey than olive with olive legs.
All of the emergers I have the best luck with are tied with a dark brown or brown Z-Lon or Antron trailing shuck. I REALLY like using grey CDC for a wing. A little brush with Frog’s Fanny and they float pretty darn good. I am also kind of partial to tying them on a curved shank hook.
One more thing; if you don?t own a copy of Hatches or Hatches II by Al Caucci and Bob Nastasi; get one! It should be readily available in the used book market if there isn?t a current edition.
Beside my own observations; this book is my bible for mayfly behavior, coloration, size and hatching information. While some of the Latin names are confusing and may have been changed; the info in this book is excellent and very useful for Pennsylvania.
If I don?t have any first hand experience with a particular bug; I just go to Hatches and get the color & size of the natural and just tie up a general pattern in the right color & size.
As a result my fly boxes have a limited number of patterns in a whole lot of different basic colors. It works great for me and makes life a LOT simpler.
Be sure to look at the book “Mayflies” by Ted Fuceglia, great photographs of the major eastern hatches, also se the website troutnut.com excellent pictures of major hatches.
I’m in the market for Hatches II. I found it on Amazon–it seems to be about everyone’s bug bible. Ted Fauceglia’s book is also another one I have marked for future purchase.
Bamboozle, I tie my olives gray, too. I’ve actually never really seen too many olives that were an olive color around Central, PA.
As for emergers I’ve been tying them dark brown with a gray CDC wing. Sometimes I fish them in the surface or as a dropper with a larger nymph as the point fly. I think I tie them in 18 & 20.
I really enjoy exchanging information like this–you learn so much no matter how long you’ve been involved in the sport.
And, I carry way too many flies around with me. I guess I’m a bit OCD. LOL!
Thanks
Aren’t most BWOs a rusty color when and if they return to the water?
Joe
Hi Joe: I’m only going on information given to me by persons who are much more knowledgeable than myself. I was actually told the emergers are a dark brown. I was told in the spring that the Olive Duns are a light olive color on the bottom, the part the fish sees. My own experience with fall olives is that they are gray-bodied duns. From what I’ve been learning in the past few posts olive spentwing spinners really don’t exist. The reason I asked about olive spentwing spinners is because I can’t recall every seeing them and I didn’t want to overlook another way to fool the fish. I need all the help I can get. 
The only sure fire way to know size and color for sure is to look at a bug from the water you’re fishing. I’m not very good with colors so I get second and third opinions. Colors can be subjective, too! Sorry I can’t be more help.
Hi, lastchance,
What I meant was, and I didn’t say it right, the few BWOs that return to the water as spentwing spinners - at least as I understand it - are usually a rust color, not olive or gray. I don’t think many of them even fly back to the water to lay eggs. They’re crawlers, aren’t they?
Joe
No. I think they are pretty good swimmers. Their bodies are long and sleek. I think that’s why the PT is used many times for an imiation of the nymph. But, I’m certainly no expert. Maybe somebody could jump in here.
I don’t mean the nymphs, I mean when they return to the water to lay eggs most BWOs will crawl back to the water and dive to lay their eggs instead of flying back and laying them on top, spentwing spinner style. I know one of the most productive flies I’ve used at this stage is La Fontaine’s Diving BWO. Easy to tie, too.
Joe
Sorry, Joe, I didn’t read your post correctly. Yep, I think you are exactly right about that. I never gave La Fontaine’s Diving BWO a thought. Good idea. I’ll tie 16s for the spring hatch and 18s & 20s for the fall hatch. Do you fish in, PA? If so, what color do you tie the BWO divers?
Among SOME of the insects referred to as Blue Winged Olives in the east:[ul]
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Baetis ? various species
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Pseudocloeon, Cloeon, Neocloeon ? various species
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Ephemerella cornuta
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Ephemerella attenuata[/ul]
All of these bugs have different imago, (spinner) behavior with the female Baetis being the one that does the crawling under the water thing. But Pseudocloeon and even the cornutas can have a fishable spinner fall. I know because I?ve run into it. For that reason and the reason that I?m not an entomologist and don?t I know, (or care) which specific insect hatches on my local streams; I pack a few BWO spinners just in case.
Midwestern and western species include other families and/or genus and those insects can behave differently as well.
Until the day comes when the bugs come with barcodes on them so I can make a positive ID; I?ll just go with what I?ve experienced and what works for me. The books and websites may spell it out accurately but unless you are positive what insect hatches where YOU fish; it’s a moot point.
Besides; fish can?t read and if they see my spinner imitation and they?re hungry; they might just eat it?
?even IF it?s SUPPOSED to be a species that doesn?t fall spent wing style to the water?s surface.
lastchance,
Sorry for the delayed reply. I went out of town for the weekend. No, I don’t fish in PA. My trout fishing is pretty much limited to the small streams in northern New Mexico the two times a year I get to go there, so the colors I use may not be of much help. However, normally I tie them with either an olive gray or a reddish brown body.
Joe
You guys are correct. There are so mnay different BWOs you can never be sure what family and colors they are. It seems the fall hatches here in Central, PA, are more gray than olive in sizes 18s and 20s. I tie my duns with gray beaver underfur for the fall. I tie the Spring olives with a light olive body and the emergers in a dark brown.
hey lastchance. If you are talking about BWO’s, then I will assume you mean Baetis. Baetis hatch as a olive sub-imago (dun) and return as a rusty brown colored imago (spinner). A great pattern is Sylvester Nemes’ Baetis Spinner. I more often find myself using one that I sort of designed. It’s a size 16 with a dark dun hackle fiber tail, the body is rusty brown 8/0 thread built up in a taper, ribbing is fine gold wire, wings are natural dun CDC feathers with a bit of dun antron as an overwing. Great flotation and sillouhette. Hope this helps.
nen-bran
Thanks, Nen-bran! I appreciate the input. I’ll give your pattern a try.