Dave,
Sorry, you’re right I could have said that better. Let me try again and if I’m still not clear maybe Okie can chime in.
Imagine you’re standing upright with your feet spread shoulder width with your shoulders square with your head looking straight ahead. You’ve got a fish on the line and he is directly in front of you. Now, what you want to do is hold the rod somewhere between directly off of your right or your left shoulder and directly in front of you. Usually about half way or so. Also, you want the rod paralell to the water rather than directly overhead. You can achieve much the same result with the rod pointed about half way between the water and directly vertical and directly in front of you but to me, and I don’t have anything scientific to back this up, I seem to be able to apply more pressure to a fish if my rod is to the side or paralell to the water. What you’re trying to achieve is to get the rod to bend down into the butt section and not just at the tip. And I have seen some studies done on the amount of pressure you can put on a fish with just the tip section in play and it isn’t much, even with larger rods. Your goal again is to get the butt section of the rod involved. It’s really easy to understand if you see it done. I hope that’s as clear as mud. If not, ask Okie and maybe he can say it another way.
Poke,
Good to hear from you. I thought you might have stopped at a lake on the way to OK City and decided to become a fishing bum or something. I’m trying to beg John into mailing me one of his flies but so far I haven’t heard a “yes” from him. He may be like this other friend I have. This other guy is a crappie magnet. He’s always coming up with some crappie lure that he will bring out and say “now, this is going to be a killer” and it always is. I tell him that it doesn’t make a rip what he fishes with he’s going to put a whoopin’ on the crappie. He could catch crappie on a cigarette butt and I’m beginning to think Okie’s the same way with the carp. I’m beginning to think it ain’t the fly but the guy that’s tossing it. Now that’s an idea. Next time let’s make him fish with a cigarette butt and see if we can beat him. What are the odds?
What Robert is talking about is holding your rod at less of an angle with the water. If you hold the rod with butt section pointing straight up, that bends the rest of the rod through a lot of degrees of arc and puts it under a lot of stress. If you’re fishing a heavy tippet, that puts you at risk for breaking a rod. When you hold your rod at a lower angle the rod is subjected to less deflection and is at a lower risk for breaking. But, since it bends less, it is absorbing less energy from the fish, which puts you at greater risk for breaking a tippet. If you hold your rod completely pointed at the fish, there is no deflection in the rod, and no energy is being stored by it. Then if a fish runs and your drag is set too tight, pop goes the tippet.
In summary:
Rod butt straight up and down, pop goes the rod.
Rod butt straight horizontal, pop goes the tippet.
Rod butt somewhere in between, everything is A-okay.
Oh, and Robert is also talking about always pulling in a direction that is against the fish. If the fish is swimming to your right, pull to your left until he turns around, then pull to your right. Always work against the fish, not with it.
Robert,
The answer is yes, I’ll try to tie some for you this evening. Oh, and I don’t know what they are, but I’ll take those odds. . . so long as I can modify the cigarette butt 
Sounds great guys!!! I had a couple this weekend for a carp trip they won in a raffle at our TX fly fishing show. They won the trip and had never fly fished before. Well, they didn’t land any carp but my heart was beating the whole time!!! Especially the three times that they were able to get the carp to eat and then make some mistake or another. I don’t mind, carp is not exactly a good introduction to fly fishing, but I owed them the trip so we did it-- and we all had fun.
I also like them on a 2 weight, I also have a 6’6" Rainshadow 2. It’s a blast. I use 10 pound or 8 pound tippet and have no problems hooking up with them.
I still really want to get together with you Okie carp guys and trade tips & tricks, we need to do that sometime this summer if I can ever break away. I need to get a day where the guide gets to fish 
It’s been a few weeks since I fished for carp but I’ve been busy with clients and I’ve seen plenty of eats!
–playin’ with my piscatorial pals–
[url=http://www.fedflyfishers.org/certified.php:97da8]FFF Certified Casting Instructor[/url:97da8]
[url=http://www.trashonthefly.com:97da8]http://www.trashonthefly.com[/url:97da8]
Dave,
I agree. Carp are indeed a hard way to start someone who has never fly fished before. They’re a heck of a challenge even for someone that’s flyfished a long time as you know.I hope your clients appreciated what they saw and I hope they’ll try it again. Well it seems like we all agree on the 6’6" 2wt. Rainshadow because that’s what I carp fish with too most of the time. I was previously using a 7’ St. Croix 2wt. Poke put me on that Rainshadow rod. He had it last year and had just bought it from a guy off of ebay that had built it. I cast it one day when he and I were carping and really liked it and tried to buy it off him for a profit but he wouldn’t budge so I called the guy up and he made me one for the same price Poke gave for his.
Robert, your flies will be in the mail tomorrow. On saturday I was fishing them with a piece of size 6 shot about eight inches up. Enough to help sink it, but still let the fly move and flow. I hope you have some success with it. (I know you’re going to see them and think, what’s the big deal? )
John,
Thanks. I appreciate it. Sometimes the simplest flys and baits are the most effective. Take the plastic worm. Probably the most successful bass bait of all time. What could be simpler?
Robert and Okie, thank you for explaining it. It seems to make sense to me now.
On an semi-unrelated topic. I was on a local creek recently, and found some Carp. I couldn’t entice them, but I found one laying dead in a couple inches of water and had my first close look at a Carp. I was amazed at how much it looked like a Bonefish. Are Bonefish and Carp related?
Thanks again.
Dave
Dave,
You’re welcome. Man, I hope you can get those carp to take. I can tell you’re really wanting to. I’m pulling for you. If you have problems email me and I’ll try to help you and I’ll bet Okie, Poke or LHD would do the same. I’ve been fishing over thirty years with every type of gear (spin, baitcast and fly) for all kinds of WW fish and I don’t think anything has ever captivated me as much as sight fishing for carp. They are such a hoot it’s unreal and the good thing is you’ll have them all to yourself. You won’t have to get in line to fish down a bank like they do on some of the more popular largemouth lakes or “combat fish” shoulder to shoulder on some of the more popular trout streams like the San Juan or White River and I’ve done all that too.
As far as carp being related to bonefish, I’m not sure but I agree with you, they sure are built a lot alike. Take a look at a saltwater red fish too. They remind me a lot of a carp. You’ll hear people say carp are ugly and they live in polluted environments. Neither of those statements is true. They are a really handsome fish once you get them in your hand and examine one. Their yellowish gold color is outstanding and their large scales are really attractive. And as far as them living in polluted places well that may be true some places but the places I fish for them are on some of the prettiest little clear lakes around here with trees, cattails, green grass, and clear blue Oklahoma skies for a backdrop.
Dave,
I’m not a fisheries biologist, but I don’t think so. I think a closer relative might be the redfish since they’re a member of the drum family which I think is a distant relative. I’ve fished for permit, bonefish and redfish and it’s amazing how similar all their feeding behaviors are. Trust me, carp are every bit as spooky as permit and can be even more finicky feeders. I’m not sure I will ever spend the big bucks again to go after the saltwater species when I have “Golden Bones” so close to home. As for great carp flies, I’d like to add a Poxyback Olive Stone to the list. The guys at the local flyshop here in OKC said that was one of their favorites for carp and I’ve had great success with them. I think last year about all Robert and I used were prince nymphs with great success, but this year we’ve both branched out a little experimenting with new patterns. I’ve also followed the advice of Long-Haired Dave and started using bigger sizes (#8 & #10) with about the same results. In fact, I caught my biggest carp to date (a fat 27 incher) on a size 8 chain head marabou pattern about two months ago. I think you should have as many tools in your tool box as possible to address anything these fish can throw at you and that’s kind of what I’ve been doing as I learn more about them. Carp should get more respect but even the guys in my local flyfishers club still give me a hard time about my passion for these wonderful fish.
Carp are in the minnow family, so they are about as closely related to redfish or bonefish as any fish is to any other fish.
The one thing you have to be careful about when comparing carp to redfish or bonefish is that both of those salty dogs will chase bait but a carp basically won’t. So retrieve wisely.
Carp rock!
–playin’ with my piscatorial pals–
[url=http://www.fedflyfishers.org/certified.php:f5bcb]FFF Certified Casting Instructor[/url:f5bcb]
[url=http://www.trashonthefly.com:f5bcb]http://www.trashonthefly.com[/url:f5bcb]
Careful LHD. Carp usually won’t. . .
Okie,
I got the flies. Thanks man. I knew you’d come through. Now I’m pumped. I just know those things are going to slay them.
Okie, you know, I’ve been thinking. I am a lawyer and I do name changes from time to time. That’s part of my job. What would you think about changing your FAOL name from Okiebass to Okiecarp? I would file the paperwork and handle everything to accomplish the name change at no charge to you. Let me know.
R.
Okie; you’re right, carp will sometimes chase bait, it is just extremely infrequent. The biggest mistake I see anglers make is fishing for carp the way they’d strip a fleeing shrimp away from a bonefish or redfish. Too fast.
Now I had an awesome experience about 9 years ago in the reservoir for a small town in Iowa, I kept hearing these crashing sounds as I was fishing for bream, upon closer inspection carp were herding up and chasing minnows into the banks feeding on them. The carp were practically beaching themselves going after the little guys.
But that’s why I say they “basically” won’t chase bait… because it’s nothing for any of us to speed up, but it sometimes seems near impossible to get people to SLOW DOWN.
The tailwater I fish is loaded with carp mup to about 8 lbs. Right now, the tricos are on that river and I have been enjoying good sucess with carp on dry flies. The carp are schooled up and feeding in the eddys to suck up all the spinners the can gulp down. My largest to date has been a 26 incher on 6x tippet. I have had a few more big ones on that have broken off at the terminal knot, The hot fly seems to be a black double foam beetle. I am using a 7’9" 3 weight blank from hook and hackle. cant wait till tommmorrow!