Obnoxious Guides

So, I’ve had this recurring “issue” on my last few trips to Taneycomo when the dam wasn’t generating or was barely generating…

Yesterday’s events were typical of what’s been going on. So I’ll just tell you what happened yesterday. Hopefully, the guides out there who read this will stick it in the backs of their minds and try not to fall into this trap.

My wife and I waded into the water yesterday with no generation. Across the river, there’s a guide I know in a new boat with a father-son pair of clients. He’s yelling at them…“set…set the hook…NOW…stop your cast…stop it…stop it HERE, I said” THE WHOLE TIME. If one of them hooked up, he hooped and hollered to make sure everyone on the river knew his client caught a fish. “Everyone” was pretty much US.

As we entered the stream, another guide up from AR puts his river jon in at the ramp. He’s talking to another guide who is just standing at the ramp doing some ad hoc “advertising.” He says he didn’t even bring a rod/reel, but came up just to “test his new prop” …in the trophy zone wade fishing area on a rare “no generation” day. :shock: Thanks, dude! There’s only like 2 dozen ramps on Taneycomo BELOW the wadable water.

After about 1/2 hour, these chuckleheads clear out except for the motormouth with the built-in bullhorn in the brand new boat. He continues to make a spectacle of himself until he drops his clients off at the ramp at noon. Then he backs the boat back off the ramp and heads right back to the same spot (that you can wade to). We’re talking 15’-20’ jonboats with 5-25hp motors, folks. Now he’s fishing alone…talking on the cell phone, false casting extremely excessively like he’s trying to imitate Brad Pitt’s “shadow casting,” and slapping the water violently with his fly rod several times every few minutes ostensibly to “clear moss” or something. Then he moves his boat right over into the immediate area my wife and I are wade fishing and starts casting right into our drifts. He’s talking to us telling us “how to fish.” This goes on NON-STOP for like an hour. Then his dad shows up at the ramp and he picks him up. They come right back up and camp out on top of us again! More non-stop unsolicited “instruction,” but now in stereo! We got out. Immediately, the dynamic duo head downstream and out of sight. Whew! :?

My wife and I refilled water, ate a snack, and headed for another spot I suspected would be productive given the conditions. We waded in and began fishing. We caught several small trout right away on zebra midges on a shallow shoal that EVERYONE knows is there. We’re talking 6-18" of water for a couple hundred yards in all directions. The channel is like 100 yards from the bank and we’re about 20 yards from the bank. And here they come back upstream. I assumed they’d stay in the channel as they were not fishing. HECK NO! They motor right over to within 10’ of us while we’re fishing and dad says, “They’ve started midging in here, haven’t they?” I said yes and he says, “Yep, I knew they would.” (along with about 1,000 other non-guide fly anglers who fish Taneycomo every now and then) Jr. says to my wife, “Yeah, this is a good spot. We fish here all the time.” And they motor upstream of us. About 50 yards upstream, Jr. looks back at us, points to a spot about 20’ toward the bank from his boat and says, “There’s a 6 lb rainbow right there.” And he motors off. My wife says, “What a jack***.”

We then caught a few more fish after things settled down again. The dam horn sounded four blasts awhile later and we knew we were done. We hiked up the trail to our car where yet another “guide” was hanging out in the parking lot. He asked how we had done. I said, “so-so.” He says, “I’m a guide here on Taneycomo. You want to know what they’re biting?” I said, “Didn’t you hear the horns? They’re turning on 4 generators, dude. Whatever they WERE biting on is irrelevant now. And we’re leaving.” I guess from my tone he realized I had had all of the “guide advertising” I wanted for the day. So he left us alone to secure our gear in peace.

Gang, this isn’t “public relations.” This isn’t appropriate professional conduct. This isn’t “public service.” THIS IS OBNOXIOUS HARASSMENT. And from now on, I’m going to start telling y’all exactly that…and probably loud enough for others to hear it.

And, fyi, you’ve got NO BUSINESS with motorized boats upstream of Pointe Royale on no generation!

Options; Get mad at the person, be quiet and ignore them, try to educate the lost soul?
It’s a problem I run into because I talk to people and everyone has levels of maturity and knowledge.
You did the right thing with the guide. It is nice you have integrity and maturity. I call it gently ‘prodding’ when it comes to encouraging others to do the right thing, since violent confontation isn’t effective communication.
Doug

It’s all about show - when you don’t have the knowledge, skill, or integrity to show you have to show something. The mouth is always available. :cry:

The sad thing is that this guy HAS the knowledge and ability and right equipment. He just doesn’t know how to shut up and fish. So he runs a lot of folks off. And the lack of stream ettiquette was astonishing to me, and I’ve been watching this guy since he was a teenager.

I left out the part where he came close to us after disembarking his paying clients and said, “That was the worst guide trip I have had in a LONG time. Some folks just won’t ever get it.”

Nothing he did yesterday was appropriate professional behavior. And he’s always pretty close to the edge just because he can’t shut up. He’s a fish-catching son-of-a-gun! And he can effectively fly fish way more of Taneycomo in more varied conditions than 90% of our so-called “guides” can. But he gets on your ever last loving nerve!

But he is by no means the only one! There’s a horde of them swarming on everyone in the MDC area below the dam. And it’s getting ridiculous. We’re talking upstart wannabes here, not the pros who work for the major established fly shops. Another one runs his huge powerboat right up through a juggernaut of wade anglers in 2’ of water where he’s got no business with anything bigger than a canoe. I’ve literally had to get out of the water and wait for him to pass more than once. And the showboatin’ attitude doesn’t help his cause, either. It’s actually a pretty long list of folks who can’t afford to advertise, get a license, and buy insurance out there hustling and passing themselves off as guides. Over the past 3 years, it’s gotten ridiculous.

I have no end of bad fishing guide stories, from many states. To be fair, I also know some good guides who would share your views on the ones you described here. However, I have had enough bad experiences that it would take some extraordinary circumstances for me to hire a fishing guide any more, or to recommend doing so to most folks.

Find out how guides are licensed there, and then file a written complaint with whichever agency does their licensing. Also talk to fish and game.

P.S. Mortars work on most small boats.

DG, if they’re in a motorized boat, they’re SUPPOSED to have a USCG 6-pack license, but only ONE that I know of does. MO has no hunting/fishing guide license. And since the USCG and USACE know that these guys are operating without licenses and don’t seem to care, I doubt filing a complaint with the gov’t about bad manners is going to do any good. Ya know what I mean?

SM,
I like the heck out of Tannycomo.
I like the heck out of 80% of the anglers that go there .
You and I both know that the percentages may be off but when a jerk shows up everyone there seems to know exactly where he is standing.
Too bad the morons didnt try to see how fast the boat would go( I think I know the little shoal that you mention :lol: )
Many of the “guides” that are down there are not what I have in my mind of what a guide should be. There are a lot of very ethical guides in that area and then there are the junkers. When they have a client with them act as though the river is theirs. Rolling up on the waders and basicly trying to shove them( I dont shove well) out of the clients way.
Any ideas how to get a no propeller area installed ?]
That might at least keep “guides” from knocking folkes around with overly large wakes.
Yeah, Im gonna ride with you on this one ,
been on the recieving end a time or two myself.
Try urging some of the motor “guides” over to that "special place we know. :lol:

You might be surprised what a written complaint will do if you are willing to testify to what you saw. Speaking as a government employee. And then there’s the newspaper. Speaking as a writer. And then the mortars, if all else fails.

that guy was pathetic!!!
at least you have the integrity to be the better man and handle the situation right!!!i commend your descision to not lose your head in that situation.
RIGHT ON!!! 8)

There is an element in this story I just don’t understand. I’m led to believe this is a very heavily fished/crowded area. As such, it shouldn’t be hard to find “fishy” spots. WHY does one NEED a guide here anyway?? Why do these " guides" take their clients to any place within voice carry distance of waders etc.? If I hire a guide, he’s taking me to places I could NEVER stumble on myself and CERTAINLY not CLOSE enough for YOU to hear our conversation. I guess, for some people, hiring a guide and is some kind of " I’m rich and I could afford a guide" statement. I personally would rather beat the water to a froth all by my lonesome especially in this area.

Mark

This makes a lot of sense. :smiley:

I pretty much agree with you here, Mark. There is a real market for INSTRUCTORS on Taney, but I can’t fathom needing a guide in the trophy zone above Fall Creek, either. I can understand the whole “row a drift boat for me” thing that River Run capitalizes on. But I can rent a jonboat at Lilley’s Landing for the whole day for less than $100. So I wouldn’t hire a guide just to use his boat…even if I were a novice. I might hire someone ONCE to teach me to fish high water during heavy generation. I can see someone doing that to shorten the learning curve and be safer.

Check the local Boating regulations. In PA we have this: "It is illegal to:

operate a boat at greater than slow no-wake when within 100 feet of the shoreline, floats, docks, ramps, swimmers, downed skiers, anchored, moored, or drifting boats, or areas marked with “slow, no-wake” buoys. "

Wading fisherman can be considered “Swimmer”. If you have anything like that then get the boat registration number and report this to loacal authorities. Take a picture id you can.

Here local authorities be that PFBC or DCNR has zero tolerance for someone buzzing too close to people in the water…

You missed my point:

  1. The closest USCG office is in STL…4.5 hour drive away. This HAS been tried MANY times before. They don’t care.

  2. The USACE refers you to the USCG.

  3. MDC has no license requirements and what these guys are doing is LEGAL.

As for newspapers, more of the guides and anglers read 2-3 specific websites than our area newspapers have total subscribers. :lol: Why do you think I posted this? :wink:

[quote=“DShock”]

This makes a lot of sense. :D[/quote]
Never mind :frowning:
Manners on the river aren’t covered by laws around here. Years ago everyone knew everyone and there was a trust, but the more river users now don’t behave in a calm manner.
Like Mark said, WHY would you fish in a location like that? You need to be at peace and happy where your fishing. You may as well stay at home and do some gardening.
Doug

Doug,

It’s a great place close to home to put newbies on 20-30 opportunities to land 15" + trout in a couple of hours of fishing. That’s the main reason. Besides, it wasn’t like this until the past couple of summers. This year, due to fuel and food prices skyrocketing and the housing market going belly up, crowds are down and some of our area construction/marginally employed types are cleaning up their boats, slapping a guide sticker on the side, and heading down to the water to try and hustle up some paying gigs. So it’s even WORSE. The way I see it, it’s better for good anglers to run THEM off than it is for us to let them run US off.

They get busted by the PFBC all the time on my stretch of the Susquehanna for that. That being said, you have to have your head on a swivel because you might get flattened by a jet drive bass boat anytime.

Too bad you guys can’t get a video clip of these folks and post that on the Internet.

One problem we have here is ‘SHARING’ the river. Jet Skis, Water Skiers, Party People, Ignorant Boat People who borrow their parent’s boat and don’t have any idea how to behave. It’s like a Timeshare for the fishermen, certain months Salmon boats are out there and then Shad and many months it’s Sturgeon, but that is mostly from the shore. If everyone was in a Fishing Club, then they could talk about etiquette and manners on the river and have more education, but no that doesn’t sound like FUN! It’s I paid for this boat and your not telling me what to do!
I had boats for yrs and it has got so bad in some places with irresponsible boat drivers, that I have no interest in ruining my day putting up with them.
In my opinion, if you can’t begin to make change, it’s time to move on.
I am of the same mindset as Marco, because there are beautiful isolated special places in our country that make fishing a source of therapy.
Doug

I mostly fish a bit more “off the beaten track,” myself. But my wife works in Branson and she just took up the fly rod last month. So it’s convenient and loaded with dumb trout. Works good for her. Taneycomo is actually quite nice during the less busy times of the year, but summer is a ZOO. I have fished many days on Taneycomo’s upper 2 miles without ever coming within shouting distance of another person on weekdays during the colder months. And I’ve even had a few days over the years where I didn’t even SEE but one or two other people the whole time. This spot I’ve been fishing lately USED to be one of those spots. But I have discovered it is not the place to be during idiot season, and this one particular guide has decided to camp out on this spot in his boat almost every day. And he just cannot shut up.

Smallmouth, carp, etc etc . . . . i am searching out out of the way smallmouth places for weeknight excursions.

I generally dont trout fish much in the summer.