iso - you cannot honestly compare the Salmon River to Joke Orchard. Joke Orchard offers less than 1 mile of fish able water and portions of that don’t hold fish. The Salmon River offers infinitely more (guessing between 15 - 20 miles) water to fish. As I mentioned above, the Salmon River certainly gets crazy but those who are not lazy can get away from the crowds and fish good water with little pressure even during height of the season.
NderdaFilm - Yes, when I say flossing I mean a less obvious for of snagging. Many still think that the Salmon will not take flies or bait which could not be further from the truth. Of course the Steelhead come to flies very well, especially when the water in in the 58 - 50 degree range.
I live 20 minutes from the Genesee and it’s a fantastic fishery but the poor water conditions ake it unfishable much of the time. When the water is good in season it great.
Jeff - AKA Dr. Fish
If it has fins and swims than I must chase it!
I fish the Oak and usually run into the usual lifters and assorted jerks who are not fishing “sportingly.” But a call to the DEC is what action you CAN take and hope they respond. Plus, there are stretches of river that are productive and can be very peaceful if you’re willing to walk. I find that fishing during weekdays is the absolute best bet.
Another good option is Sandy Creek (the one in Monroe County, NOT the one by the Salmon River in Jeff. County). Sandy gets superb runs of browns and steelhead from early fall (weather and flow permitting) into the spring. I have caught MANY bruiser browns there on nymphs and egg flies, and I find the crowds to be virtually non-existent. Solitude and big fish - it gets my vote.
Cattaraugus Creek in Irving is also worth a look, purchase an Indian fishing license and you get access to miles and miles of that creek. It holds fish from October through May. You will have large stretches of the creek to yourself and a large steelhead population at your disposal.
You won’t be disappointed with that choice. It’s the best kept secret in Western New York. I’d fish it more but there is a creek near my house that is just as good, and I can be there in 5 minutes (18 Mile Creek).
I use a 9’ 8wt for steelhead but am having a 9’6" rod built on a Sage VT2 blank for the upcoming season.
I am looking forward to getting back into my fall fishing mode, miss the steelie action. Fishing for bass in the float tube is fun but just not the same…
[This message has been edited by Chris Jacobs (edited 18 July 2006).]
“You will have large stretches of the creek to yourself and a large steelhead population at your disposal… It’s the best kept secret in Western New York”
Hardly a secret. Your definition of solitude must differ from mine.
Fishing the Res (on the Catt) never fails to give me the heebie-jeebies. Now the Zoar Valley, that’s a pretty place.
Face it, any of the big waters and most of the little tribs will have their share of a-holes. Like I said, fishing on a weekday will dramatically reduce their presence, and so does inclement weather. As long as it isn’t too cold or too wet, that is…
Doc, I’d prefer not to get into a discussion of which one is the worse. The overall points being: A fair number of anglers in both places suffer from what I’d call questionable ethics… And if you think you’re going to go to either place this fall and fish in solitude (sept-oct on SR and oct-nov on Oak)… you are probably going to be dissapointed.
Expect to be social in both places and don’t let how someone else chooses to spend their free time ruin your experience.
[This message has been edited by iso (edited 18 July 2006).]
Your heading to our part of the world for some steelies? There’s a lot of great places to fish, some of which, have been mentioned. The Salmon River is a zoo in the fall, at least, while the kings are there. Me and a buddy of mine were up there last fall and did awesome, with the exception of the half million people around. Even the fly zones were mobbed. For the steelies I usually stick with the Erie tribs. Cattaraugus Creek is very good, but very weather dependant. It blows out quick and takes a while to come down. 18 Mile Creek is another good one. There are alot of smaller tribs that get excellent runs also. PM me if you need some other options.
For rods and reels, generally, 9’-10’ 7-8 wt. for steelhead (I also use a 12.5 ft. spey) 8-9 wts. for salmon. Large arbor reels work well for getting line in quicker. Usually a reel that will hold your fly line and 100-200 yards of backing (if you fish the Niagara, you’d need it). Let me know when your heading over, i’ll give ya more info.
Chris, who listed Oak Orchard as the top steelhead stream? Are they kidding? It was a great stream years ago, but for the past 10 years or so, with all the water games they keep playing with the dam, it’s become a joke.
[This message has been edited by pspaint (edited 18 July 2006).]
Fly Fisherman mag listed it as the top steelhead stream in the country. I’ve only fished it once and did well there. I usually fish 18 mile as it is 5 minutes from home. I can always find fish there, but try to fish it during bad weather and in the winter as I see less traffic. It also has a killer smallmouth run and I have caught walleye in the mouth during the spawn.
I normally fish it up from Route 20, the farther you walk, the more people you get away from. Once deer season hits, I have it mostly to myself. It’s best in snow. I’ll fish the forks then.
Thanks soooo much for the wealth of information that you all have put forth. I’ll be sure to post when I’ll be heading out there and perhaps some of us can get together for a day or two on some of the rivers…and of course some beers afterwards…I’m hoping to get out there a couple times this late summer early fall.
Well seeing as I enjoy fishing in the rain, perhaps that’s always an option as well. I just ordered a Forecast rod building kit from H&H, hopefully it’ll do the job just fine. I haven’t heard of any complaints and know a couple people who have built and used them.
Just a couple more questions…when is the “typical” begginning of the salmon runs and steelhead runs? I know some of them run all year, but I’m just looking for a more solid date to plan around. I’m also looking at the Okuma SLV Super 7/8 Large Arbor reel to put on the rod. Has anyone had any experience with them? Oh yeah, what type of fly patterns? Obviously eggs and streamers…
I think someone needs to talk to the folks over at the magazine and set them straight. Oh, wait…actually it’s better this way. Everyone will go to the Orchard and leave the other streams alone.lol.
18 fished really well last season. I did excellent over there, perticularly in January, when the crowds died down. I wanted to head over for the smallies but never made it.
On the Salmon river the peak for salmon is Columbus day weekend, in terms of crowds anyway. I start watching the report around mid August and generally don’t head up until 1st week of Sept. If I had to pick just one weekend to go for salmon it would be the 3rd weekend in Sept. There always seem to be at least a few fish around and they are still pretty fresh, theres a good crowd starting around then but it’s generally not to bad. As you probably know it can vary alot from year to year but that weekend has ALMOST never let me down. I would rather be up earlier rather than later because if you wait until mid oct. there will be fish there but they will most likely be half dead and not worth the effort in my opinion.
Steelies start showing up a couple of weeks after the salmon but thats really hit or miss. I’d say third week of Oct. for fishable numbers but around that time you’ll have all the leaves in the water and after you’ve pulled a leaf off of your fly for the 1000th time you’ll wonder why you even bothered. My favorite month for steelies is Nov. There’s usually fish around and they are very fresh and acrobatic and the salmon crowds are all gone. If I have to pick one weekend for steelies it would be Thanksgiving weekend theres usually a good amount of people but nothing like the salmon crowd and they are generally more well behaved and ethical.
Hope this helps
good luck, Chris
[This message has been edited by Turk (edited 19 July 2006).]
I fished 18 mile Erie during that ridiculous cold snap over Pres. day weekend, and that thing froze over FAST! However, the few runs that weren’t iced over yielded some very pretty (if a little bit lethargic) fish.
Places you’ll want to AVOID (although they can be pretty good for fishing):
18 mile Ontario @ Burt Dam. I know it fishes well, but there is SO LITTLE fly-fishable water, and the lifters are everywhere. The bait folks leave their crap all over the place, and it’s a dump at the dam. If you’re near Burt Dam, you can head over to Keg, Johnson, etc (smaller tribs) that offer more real estate and sometimes some dynamite fishing.
Oak Orchard, especially in early fall.
My top picks are (for early fall) Cattaraugus, 18 mile Erie, Sandy Creek (Monroe Cty), and the SR, specifically the DSR area. Yeah you gotta pay, but does keep some of the riff-raff out
Oh yeah you can’t go wrong with a SA System 2 reel. There relatively cheap and I’ve never had one break on me. The best reel for the money imho.
For flies I like big streamers for salmon I like black and purple and always have some chartruese. I like zonker style flies and spey style flies tied big with lots of movement.
For steelies early on I use the same streamers I use for salmon then when they make there way further up river I’ll switch over to egg flies and when it gets to be winter time I go to standard hares ears in black, olive and tan. Throw in a couple of green caddis pupa and you pretty much have it covered. Sizes from 6 to 12. Some people go smaller than that but I don’t feel the need to. You can get carried away with a ton of flies but almost all the fish I catch are caught on those flies, but I guess you can never have to many flies.
Chris
[This message has been edited by Turk (edited 19 July 2006).]
Burt Dam is definitely the worst of the worst. I wouldn’t go up there in less there was absolutely no where else to go, and even then i’d really have to think about it. The Oak’s the same deal, at least until shotgun season opens. Then it thins out. Keg really depends on precip., especially in the fall. If we don’t get much rain, it’s usually a trickle (that’s were I caught my first steelie).
I know a nice little crik up there that gets a silly run of browns usually around thanksgiving. I hope you’re around for the holiday because we really should hit some water together sooner than later.
18 Mile always fishes well, the mouth is great if you walk it on the East side of the creek. The first bend always holds fish, I avoid old lake shore bridge, love it above route 20 and spend most of my time there.
I fish the forks, only in cold, bad weather but it holds good numbers of fish.
I may try my float tube in Lake Erie at the mouth of Cattaraugus this year, on the lake side. Will need a sink tip for that though.
I believe that the fish run begins when the water temp on Lake Erie hits about 50 degrees. As the temps drop, the fish move. Add some rain and you are sure to have a healthy run.
I hope this sheds some light on the NY steelhead fall run.
Marty, sounds good! That’s usually around the peak of the season. Let me know when your headed up.
Chris, I usually hit 18, above Route 20, all the way to the Forks and then, depending on the flow, up the branches. I got some real nice ones on the lower north branch last year. The Forks are awesome, but usually a zoo. The water around 5 is nice too.
I fished Route 5 up once this year and didn’t see a fish. It was late though but I walked abit.
I’m having a 9’6" 8wt rod built on a Sage VT2 blank and it should be ready by the end of July. Looking forward to trying that with the steelhead…and muskie in Canada the second week of August. I’m stoked!!!
I didn’t fish down that far last year. There were always way too many people. I’ve got a 9’ 4wt. VT-2 and it’s sweet. Very smooth. I think you’ll be pleased.
I just got back from Bass Pro, bought a Hobbs Creek reel and type IV sink tip line for it. I think that I may take my float tube into Lake Erie at the mouth of the Cattaraugus this fall before the run and fish the steelhead…as long as it’s calm.
I hope that my rod makes it here by vacation time in August. Heading to the Severn Lodge in Canada and would like to catch a muskie on it.
