Here is my second time to play around with foam poppers etc…this time I tried to make a slider or diver. Not sure which you would call it. Most I made were poppers, but these two patterns were my favorite for some reason.
those look great!
Those look terrific and should work great. One consideration though; you might want to try a longer hook shank. This will get the bend of the hook back away from the body of the popper and give you a better hook-up rate. Just a thought…
Jim Smith
Sweet!! Really like them but I do agree with JS assessment on the longer hooks. You could just flatten the bottom to open up the gaps as that what I will do if you dont have the longer hooks.
I totally agree with flyfish dog’s comments. A professional guide/ commercial tier (now retired) who is widely known here in Texas for his “pencil poppers” stressed keeping a distance of 1/8-1/4 inch between the back edge of the body and the point of the hook.
Your flies look GREAT!
Just in case you have a truckload of those hooks, pull the hook through the body beginning near the bottom of the body, that will leave most of the hook gap open. I use a large needle to pull a piece of line that has been run through the hook eye, it allow you to see where the hook shank will run.
BTW, neat paint job on the flies.
Here is a popper. The popper should have enough gap for hook ups shouldn’t it? It is the slider where the gap isn’t as good. I have a ton of these hooks that I bought on Ebay. These are number 6 Mustad worm hooks, no other description. I bought some stinger hooks, but they were too small for these popper bodies. I bought a small pack of 6 and 8 stinger hooks, and they are MUCH smaller than the number 6 worm hook. So now I am wondering what hook would be best for these poppers, and sliders. To top it off I am not sure about the mono guard. I made one very similar to someone else’s who makes poppers all the time. (that might be about all he does) I used 20 pound test here, and it is pretty soft. I got some Stren clear mono for the next batch. This man told me single guards were just as good as the double…as he tried them both ways. I would love to hear more thoughts on all this before I go to all the trouble of another batch. Once painted it takes 3 coats of Sally’s…so it is a lot of work. I guess the more I do…the quicker I can get at this. Right now it is painfully slow work. I think the paint job is good, the rest needs tweaking.
I burned the end of the mono and tied it in through the eye…some have said that is not necessary. The man I watched does this. I then coated with Sally’s. So any thoughts on that would be appreciated too. I want the next batch to be better constructed. Still I believe these will catch some fish. I have others similar to these. The foam is soft, and I love the bodies…very easy to work with. I like these hooks because it has a large eye…so putting mono through the eye is not a problem to tie in…as it is not crowding the eye at all.
I think that popper looks GREAT!
KelKay,
When you use a longer shank hook on a popper (especially for bass), it does a couple of things for you:
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Creates a bit more space so you do not have to crowd your materials. This also allows you to make popper that appears to be larger with little additional weight. As you know with bass, big baits usually means bigger fish.
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It tends to cause the popper to sit in a tail-down position in the water when at rest. This allows you to create a slight rocking motion if you just twitch the popper while it is at rest which is a terrific way to induce strikes.
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It puts the business end of the hook right there where the fish can’t miss it even if it is just smashing it to stun it.
You are right, the paint job on your poppers is terrific and it’s obvious that take a lot of work to create them. You might consider using 1 hour epoxy to coat them as you can get it done with one coat and it will allow you enough time to coat 4-5 poppers at a time. Just a couple of thoughts…
Jim Smith
Jim you are giving me good things to think about, that is for sure. I had planned to make some more painting of foam heads today, but will now wait first. I had ideas I wanted to try, but want to get the right hooks first. The problem is I am not sure what hook size for these poppers yet. (a longer stinger hook would probably be great) I read that a CK52S hook might work real good for these poppers. The only deal is these were hand made, and given to me by a very kind gentleman on FAOL. So I cannot say okay these are Perfect Poppers a size so and so foam would go great with a size 4 hook etc… These pieces of foam have allowed me to play around, and experiment, and I am thrilled with that. They are soft enough, and work perfectly for what I want them to do. The problem is the hook matching. (on my part) If I lived close to a place that would let me try out a few hooks…that would be wonderful. I just happened to have a bunch of these worm hooks, and I thought they fit pretty good. I can spend a lot of money fooling around guessing on hooks that will work. (I already bought stinger hooks, and they were much too small for this foam) I do have longer shanked hooks that I can try…that may work. I also have a friend who ties, I might swing by his place and see what hook he may have that would work too. It is snowing and sleeting now, so after the weather gets cleared up…that would be a good time. I appreciate all the comments, this will help me to make a better popper.
Here is a couple I made in 7-08, these were the first set I ever made, but they had hard foam bodies, and I couldn’t get the legs through right.
I made these with paint pens. The ones I made recently I used real acrylic paint in metallic.
kelkay:
I am going to try to kill two birds with one stone.
With respect to your earlier question, for “standard” foam, balsa, or deer hair bugs, I use Mustad 3366 hooks and have been completely satisfied. Hooks for pencil poppers are a different matter. I use Mustad 8XL streamer hooks for them due to their elongate bodies. I don’t recall their hook number off hand. It is a ring-eyed hook and is used as THE hook for Joe’s Smelt in Maine, or so I have been told by friends there.
With respect to putting legs on, do this before you put any kind of "overcoating’, such as epoxy, etc., on. Quite often you may have to use a small pair of needle nose pliers to hold the needle with while you force it through. If this STILL won’t get the job done, it is not a crime to pre-drill the holes with a #56-60 (or higher number) drill bit. These bit sizes are based on wire guage sizes and get smaller in diameter as the number increases; just like for fish hooks.
IMHO, The spacing between the back end of the body and the hook point is near perfect. This is what you should strive for.
PM me your address and I will send you a few 3366 hooks to play with. What size do you prefer?
Cheers
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I do not have a drill, but I use drill bits for the painting. I have small 3366 hooks, but not nearly large enough for a popper of this size. I would need a hook that is a bit longer than a size 6 mustad worm hook…if you have any idea of that size. I am thinking a size 2 or 1 might work. Thanks again.
Kelly
kelkay, et al.:
Stealing a line from a Ray Stevens song: “It’s Me Again Margret”.
After going back to the top of the list, I note a few additional things That I would like to comment on.
With respect to the first two, the gap between the body and the hook point can be opened up by using needle nose pliers to carefully bend the point away from the body; being careful not to break the hook.
On the bigger bugs, 25 lb Hard Mason is the monofilament of choice. The 20 and 15 lb will work great on the smaller sizes. You do NOT want a soft flexible mono, as it will defeat your purpose. I doubt that the Stren is stiff enough to be very effective. A good wat to test is to take a pencil and pull the bug over it. If the mono collapses to one side; it is WAY TOO SOFT! You want iot to be hard enough to deflect the bug UP AND OVER the pencil!
Unless you are using pre-drilled foam bodies, you can gain additional distance between the bug body and the hook point by cutting a slit in the bottom of the bug and using CA glue for attachment. I put a single layer of cotton sewing thread on the hook shank before gluing it into the slot.
In stead of Sally Hanson’s Hard as Nails, try using a 2-Ton, or 30 minute) epoxy. You can dilute, to water-thin, by adding rubbing alcohol to it. I often put one part alcohol in my mixer for each part of epoxy, for a 1:1:2 mix (1 part resin, 1 part hardener, and 2 parts alcohol). Such dilution, at least in my experience, does not have much, if any, effect on pot-life, but it does extend drying time, as all of the alcohol has to first evaporate. Overnight has always worked for me. A single coat of the epoxy should be as durable as the three of Sally Hanson’s. Just play around with the amount of alcohol to add to give you the consistency you are looking for, but I would not increase the ratio above what I have recommended, as it will be very thin!
With respect to your question about the adequacy of the gap on you foam bug, it is hard to say without actually having it in hand. The problem lies more in the angle of the photo and the tilt of the bug in the photo. It should definitely catch fish.
To pick up on Jim’s very timely comment, frogs NEVER lay flat on the surface:their butts and hind legs always hang down! I do a foam bug with a rubber tail and I use a specific number of pieces of the round rubber legging material to give me the angle I prefer when they are on the water. It makes the angle of inclination more natural. I always tie them long so I can trim excess off if it sits too low in the water for me. Beats the hell out of trying to add more if they are too short!
Keep up the great work!
Cheers
kelkay, et al.:
Stealing a line from a Ray Stevens song: “It’s Me Again Margret”.
After going back to the top of the list, I note a few additional things that I would like to comment on.
With respect to the first two, the gap between the body and the hook point can be opened up by using needle nose pliers to carefully bend the point away from the body; being careful not to break the hook.
On the bigger bugs, 25 lb Hard Mason is the monofilament of choice. The 20 and 15 lb will work great on the smaller sizes. You do NOT want a soft flexible mono, as it will defeat your purpose. I doubt that the Stren is stiff enough to be very effective. A good way to test is to take a pencil and pull the bug over it. If the mono collapses to one side; it is WAY TOO SOFT! You want it to be hard enough to deflect the bug UP AND OVER the pencil!
Unless you are using pre-drilled foam bodies, you can gain additional distance between the bug body and the hook point by cutting a slit in the bottom of the bug and using CA glue for attachment. I put a single layer of cotton sewing thread on the hook shank before gluing it into the slot to provide for a better bond between the hook and the foam (at least I think it does!).
In stead of Sally Hanson’s Hard as Nails, try using a 2-Ton, or 30 minute) epoxy. You can dilute any of the readily available epoxies to water-thin, by adding rubbing alcohol to it. I often put one part alcohol in my mixer for each part of epoxy, for a 1:1:2 mix (1 part resin, 1 part hardener, and 2 parts alcohol). Such dilution, at least in my experience, does not have much, if any, effect on pot-life, but it does extend drying time, as all of the alcohol has to first evaporate. Overnight has always worked for me. A single coat of the epoxy should be as durable as the three of Sally Hanson’s. Just play around with the amount of alcohol to add to give you the consistency you are looking for, but I would not increase the ratio above what I have recommended, as it will be very thin!
With respect to your question about the adequacy of the gap on your foam bug, it is hard to say without actually having it in hand. The problem lies more in the angle of the photo (which is excellent) and the tilt of the bug in the photo. It should definitely catch fish.
To pick up on Jim’s very timely comment, frogs NEVER lay flat on the surface:their butts and hind legs always hang down! I do a foam bug with a rubber tail and I use a specific number of pieces of the round rubber legging material to give me the angle I prefer when they are on the water. It makes the angle of inclination more natural. I always tie them long so I can trim excess off if it sits too low in the water for me. Beats the daylights out of trying to add more if they are too short! Another feature of bullfrogs is that their bellies ARE NOT white! They are a dirty gray/cream; and often mottled.
Keep up the great work!
Cheers
Thanks again for all of the experience you are sharing. I have not had much luck with epoxy in the past, I get air bubbles or discolored epoxy at times. I find 3 coats of Sally’s easier. I will look over what all you said again tomorrow when I am more fresh. I read it all just now, but want to reread tomorrow when I am not so tired. I will also try that pencil trick you mentioned. Thanks again.
Kelly
I appreciate the comment on the belly of a bullfrog’s color. I will have to keep that in mind for my next batch. I have not had the chance to view a bullfrog’s underside in a few years, so I had forgotten about the color difference. I see toads all the time here, but that is certainly not the same. 
kelkay:
I am puzzled by the discolored epoxy problem. What type and brand did you use? I either use Devcon 2 Ton or get the 30-minute epoxy at model plane/train shops. They all have their own “name” on it, but it works just like the Devcon for me, and I have never had problems with discoloration. The 5-minute epoxies also work, but you have restricted working-time with them; hence my use of the 2 Ton, which has a working time of 30 minutes, or those simply labeled as 30-minute.
Thinning epoxy greatly reduces the air bubble problem, in my experience. Even a little thinning seems to help. Eliminating bubbles from un-thinned or thinned is really very simple: just hold the object, with the bubble(s) oriented towards your mouth, close to your mouth and exhale through your mouth over it. Voila’! They disappear. It has been claimed that it is the CO2 and warmth of your breath that does the trick. (A now-retired professional custom rod builder taught me this trick nearly 30 years ago; and it works.)
Cheers
I used a Devcon, I think it was five minute…most of them came out okay colored, a few did not. I usually had a bubble problem. There were two times I had trouble with stickiness. Then I bought a rod builders epoxy…little did I know it wasn’t the finishing glaze type epoxy, but to glue stuff in, and it had a slight smokey topaz color to it…plus bubbles. I spent twenty bucks on that, as someone told me it was good. Yes, but not for the application I wanted. I live in a place that has a lot of humidity, and this is when I used it, now I find that is not the time to use epoxy…on days of high humidity. (I live in NE Texas…summers here are especially humid) I did buy a couple of days ago Aleene’s Fabric Fushion to make baitfish patterns with…kind of like a Surf Candy. I used it last night on four flies. I like that it was clear, with virtually no bubbles…but it would take 2-3 applications to use that, and it might not be evenly spread. I have an fly turner, and will continue to play with that. I bought another Epoxy…but it has just sit there so far. I am a little hesitant in using it. I messed up some good Thunder Creeks the last time I tried to use epoxy, and I have not been itching to get back and use it. 
One easy way to get the bubbles out of any epoxy that has a fairly long (30 minute plus) pot life is to pull them out of solution with vacuum. If you have one of the “Food Saver” type vacuum sealer systems with the canister attachment, mix up your epoxy in a small cup, put it in the canister, and suck the air out of it. This works especially well with lower viscosity fluids, so if you have thinned the epoxy as aged sage said, you should be able to get all of the air bubbles out of it quite easily.
Bob