John,
Could you expound on “nymphs really don’t much dead drift”? Perhaps relate it to behavioral drift.
I seldom use a strike indicator when fishing moving water, I just don’t like them. I do use them, and hopper/droppers on still waters. But I fish tail waters where there are few hatches, size 28 midges if you are so inclined? So it’s mostly down deep, ticking the rocks where I want my fly.
One problem with this discussion is that few of us are fishing the same type of conditions so we are sort of comparing apples to oranges!
I have fished John’s home waters and must say he is truly blessed. But I’d sure like to get him over here to fish the Duck and Elk Rivers just for the diversity.
Jack,
Which Elk and Duck rivers? Where?
Jim, AKA (Boomer51) Forgive me for not properly welcoming you to the board. You know that the new guy must bring the donuts and coffee? We used to make them chop wood for the fire too!!
Hope to hear from you a lot.
Byron The Elk River from Tim’s Ford Dam in Franklin County Tennessee and the Duck River out of Normandy Lake in Bedford County Tennessee. Up in Manchester, TN is Old Stone Fort camp grounds. It is the site of a 2000 year old indian village set between the Little Duck River and the Duck River. Both rivers below the dams are stocked. The Elk gets Browns and Rainbows while the Duck gets only Rainbows. I like the Duck as you never know what you may hook up! I’ve caught Blue Gills, Rainbows and Walleye out of the same hole with the same fly!
Byron -
I don’t know what “behavorial drift” is, so I can’t relate anything to it.
As far as nymphs and dead drifting go my observations are two fold.
The naturals don’t just coast along like a piece of metal with some stuff on it, whether any of that stuff moves or not. The ones I’ve seen personally swim, and as often as not, it is across the current not with it. The ones I’ve seen in videos also have quite a bit of movement that is not restricted by what the current is doing. Maybe dead naturals dead drift, but live ones don’t.
Regarding artificial nymphs ( flies ), they are more like dead nymphs than live ones since they can’t swim. So if the flies are not tied to anything that restricts their movement in the currents then I suppose you could say they are dead drifting. But if they are tied to something that effects their movement, they aren’t doing what either live or dead naturals do. If that thing they are attached to is an indicator, whether a bobber or a yarn thing or a dry fly, the indicator may be dead drifting on the surface but that doesn’t equate to the nymph dead drifting somewhere down in the water column.
Even when the indicator is dead drifting on a perfectly smooth surface it will likely be dragging a trailing nymph out of a dead drift along its own path in and through the water column. Add surface chop and mixed currents to the equation, and the trailing nymph is almost certainly being lifted vertically and pulled sideways relative to the current it is actually drifting in, sometimes, if not usually, being pulled up or down and sideways at the same time.
Another thing that is pretty common on my home water is that the subsurface currents will move a nymph downstream faster than the indicator will move on the surface. You don’t hear much discussion about that kind of thing, probably because it is something that a only minority of anglers experience and have to deal with. But it does make the point that all the grand generalities of fly angling have real world exceptions, the value of dead drifting being one of them.
All that movement of the nymph is probably a good thing. You might recall a thread I started a while back on the FAOL Forum called something like “Drift, Drag, and Agitating.” It pretty well speaks to my experience in this regard.
John
John,
Even a perfect dead drift of a dry fly does not mean that the fly will not float at different speeds and different directions depending upon the surface current(s). In fact, that IS what a dead drift is supposed to do. Float as the natural does.
The same applies to subsurface forms of insects. They get buffeted about based on currents and obstructions. Just as one intends in a dead drift - to behave as the natural does.
Behavioral Drift is the accepted phenomenon which keeps our streams somewhat evenly populated by insects. The adults tend to fly upstream to lay their eggs. If it were not for the fact that nymphs and pupae tend to drift downstream, all the lower sections of a river would no longer have hatching insects. So, it is this natural behavioral drift of the nymphs and pupae which distribute the insect downstream.
Anyway, those are my beliefs.