Someone ask if I knew what kind of feather this is and I don’t or don’t remember so I was hoping that someone here may have the answer.
Thanks,
Skip
It?s a badger cock hackle. Like this one;
http://business.virgin.net/fly.fishing/matuka269.jpg
but with darker tips.
TL
MC
Thanks and I should have known that since I have a Badger Cape, LOL! I just didn’t look at it right since it’s wider than the dry fly cape I have. I thought it may be something else. I guees this head cold I have had for a week is really taking my thinking to a new all time low.
Thanks again,
Skip
The black edge on the tips looks like the India dry fly neck capes from days of old.
Good Fishing,
Arnie
If you or your friends are trying to duplicate that look, you can do it pretty easily with a black Sharpie marker. It would be a lot easier than than hunting down the naturals. 8T 
It looks wide because it?s a spade feather, not a neck or saddle feather. These were once commonly used for tailing materials on dry flies. Apparently these are trimmed off genetic capes before they are packaged. Some are sold separately as tailing material, and have been bred out of existence on some blood lines. One can still find them on Indian cock capes. They are located on the edges of the neck capes. On the shoulders of the bird, between the neck and the saddle.
TL
MC
Without holding the actual feather in my hand I can not be sure if it has been doctored or not.
It appears as if it is from one of several shades of Gold Badger.
It also appears to be what we tiers call “spade feathers” which all chickens have naturally. Actually they are scapular feathers. They have not “bred out” just removed and packaged seperately by most breeders or shops, packaged and sold. We here at the Ranch leave them on the skin. The cut line happens to run right through the center of the patch of spades. If you buy either saddles or capes of dry fly roosters from us, you will get the spades for free. (I’m too lazy to pluck and package, plus I have a thing about ripping off the tier.) I strongly feel if you buy a skin that you should get all of the feathers that nature gave the bird.
The width of the center black stripe is not exactly the same on the Badger families. Some are very narrow, some much wider. If a tier requests a very thin black center I will try and match the tiers desire.
The feather we are talking about differs in size from very small to quite large.
They are located from the humerous (sic) first large joint below shoulder joint, up across the back, between the cape and saddle feathers, down to the same spot of the other wing.
I have been known to sell a pair of wings now and then to those wanting the very small spades. Not often though.
Hope this helps
Denny
Skip,
That feather you have is particularely interesting because not only does it have a black center (list) but it also has very prominent black tips! I believe that is extremely rare these days. It is fairly common to find chicken feathers that are ginger with a black list and that is called golden badger as others have already mentioned. It is also possible to find grey with a black list which is called silver badger and brown with a black list (called furnace). I think one can also find white feathers with black list but I don’t believe that combination has a name. I have seen pictures of the badgers and furnace hackles with black tips but those combinations are almost impossible to find today (at least where I’m looking). Furnace with a black tip is called coch-y-bondhu. It was traditionally used to imitate a little beetle of that name. The other combinations don’t have specific names that I know of so really you have some rare unnamed hackle that is closest to golden badger.
Really interesting! I would have never thought this would go this direction.
Denny I bought your JV deal this year and I guess soon will need to try out one of you better more mature birds, maybe 2 or 3, LOL! I guess they are on the JV capes I got and as I understand it they are right on the cut so would be on both sides?
Thanks everyone,
Skip
Skip,
Yes, Spade feathers will be found on both the bottom of a cape, even on our JV roosters and at the top of our saddles.
Interesting note:
Schlopen are left on the saddles here at the Ranch, are found below the saddle hackle but above the tail feathers. Just lift the saddle hackle and Presto! the Schlopen, desired for tying many flies where dry fly quality is not desired or needed.
Any questions, just e-mail me direct at the Ranch and I will respond.
Denny
Hi,
I believe white with a black centre is just “badger”, and I think ginger with a black centre and black tips is called a “Greenwell’s” because it was used for Greenwell’s Glory. I’ve seen some photos of black tipped badger-type feathers, but I’ve never come across any. A shame as I would think these would make a great hackle. Perhaps, like blue dun, they are quite hard to produce? I’m sure Denny would know.
- Jeff
As there seems to be some interest ( and confusion! ) in regard to various hackles and their colours etc, the following may be of use;
PLATE 10.
HACKLE FEATHERS. POULTRY, &c.
-
Cochybondu Cock (neck).
-
Furnace Cock (neck).
-
Red Cock (neck).
-
Red with White List, Cock.
-
Red Cockerel.
-
Yellow or Brassy Cock.
-
Dark Badger Cock.
-
Yellow Badger Cock.
-
Pale Badger Cock.
-
Brown Badger Hen.
1 1. Game Hen.
-
Pale Game Hen.
-
Dark Game Hen.
-
Dark Cinnamon Hen.
1 5. Cinnamon Hen.
1 6. Dark Buff Hen.
- Buff Hen.
1 8. Cree Hen.
-
Yellow Cree Cock.
-
Yellow Cree Cock.
-
Fine Cree Cock.
-
Black Cock.
-
Black Hen.
-
Green Black Cock.
-
Dark Blue Cock.
-
Dark Blue Hen.
-
Light Blue Cockerel.
-
Rusty Cock.
-
Rusty Hen.
-
Dark Honey Dun.
-
Medium Honey Dun.
-
Honey Dun.
-
Merlin or Blue Hawk.
-
Coot or Water Hen.
-
Dark Snipe (under wing).
-
Starling (under wing).
-
Grey Partridge (breast).
-
Brown Partridge (back).
-
Woodcock (dark back).
-
Light Woodcock (under wing).
-
Brown Owl (back or wing).
-
Grouse, Cinnamon.
-
Grouse, Speckled.
-
Grouse, Barred.
-
Landrail or Corncrake.
-
Curlew.
-
Golden Plover.
-
Ibis.
-
Parakeet or Love Bird.
-
Green Plover or Pewitt
Topping. -
Dyed Hackles.
-
The cochybondu is a very difficult feather to get in small sizes. It is, however, much more plentiful in larger sizes, as the small leathers are apt to be too black. The example shown is a good one, having good black, “list” next the quill, then good deep red and black tips. It is the black tips which dis- 2. tinguish it from No. 2.
The furnace hackles 3-4-5. (Nos. 3, 4, 5) call for no special comment.
- No. 6 a real, bright “brassey” is not met every day. It is the best possible base for dying on, and also makes first rate wings for u lacewings" and ''yellow sallies," &c.
7-9. The dark and light badgers are favourites for many hackled and wing flies, and No. 8, “black yellow black,” is the original hackle of Greenwell’s Glory.
- The brown badger is not used as much as it might be. It makes a very good imitation of brown or white legs, which are often seen in nature.
Three shades from the neck of a game hen. These are sometimes called " honey duns," and may be obtained in a very wide range of shades, most of them being useful.
14-15- Range from buff to deep cinnamon, and 16- 17 are all useful; they are all hen feathers, and for caddis flies are very suitable. Small hackles of these colours are great favourites with grayling.
18-2 1. Various colours of “Crees”; the finest in the markings are the most useful, and the tips of the small feathers make first rate wings for gnats and small stone flies.
-
Black cock, a very useful feather for
many purposes. -
Black hen of a smoky colour, also very
useful. -
Is a lustrous black green, rather stiffer,
and floats better than No. 23. -
When held up to the light this is many
shades lighter, and has a fine glassy grey
colour. -
Is a hen feather, duller of fibre, but nearly
the same colour. -
Is a fine glassy light Andalusian cock of
good quality.
28-29. Are " rusty" blues, that is : when held up to the light they have a distinct brownish red tinge, especially at the tips.
30-31-32 Are very much sought after; they are honey duns of three shades, being the colour of rather dark old honey along the quills, and new honey at the tips of the fibres.
-
The merlin or blue hawk back, provides excellent pale blue, much sought after by grayling fishers ; the heron and the tern or sea-swallow also yield somewhat similar feathers.
-
The Coot provides some very good hackles on the back, the wings, and also under the wings.
-
The various snipes, sand pipers, stints, dunlins, and other shore birds give feathers of this type, though one of the best is under the wing of the jack-snipe.
-
The starling’s under wing provides this feather, which is often palmed off as a dotteril for hackles of that ilk.
-
The grey partridge is useful, but not as
-
generally so as the brown one, which will kill with or without a wing and with almost any coloured body, where the trout are not over educated.
39-40. From the back and underwing of the woodcock ; they are used both as hackle or wing feathers.
- The brown owl, used as a hackle imitation of a caddis fly.
42-43-44 These three are grouse hackles of very varied colour, and all useful.
-
This is a landrail hackle of very useful colour, as are almost all the. feathers on this bird.
-
The curlew, much used for hackle flies on the moors where the bird abounds.
-
The golden plover, also useful, the contrast between the yellow and the dark ash colour, making fine speckled legs.
-
The ibis, used for tags, heads, and tails, and on occasion, legs, when a freak is wanted.
-
The small parakeet, which is a fine insect green, and sometimes takes both trout and grayling when they are skittish and refuse more commonplace diet.
-
The pewit crest ; very useful when a long fine hackle is desired.
The best way to judge of the real quality of a hackle is to try the texture and then hold it up to the light, when a much truer judgment may be formed of its real colour than by looking at it by reflected light.
- The various dyed hackles shown are those used when attempting to obtain a prismatic effect in the fly.
This plate, and the plates of the wing feathers in the other thread are from;
“The Natural Trout Fly and its Imitation” by Leonard West which is available here as a full PDF, including the plates, which are good quality scans;
http://www.archive.org/details/naturaltroutflyi00westrich
The plates in my original copy are somewhat better, but it is rather a challenge scanning them in suitable quality. I have been working on photographing original feathers for quite some time now, but these are not finished yet. Neverthelss, I have a few, and if anybody wants info on a specific feather, then just ask.
With regard to feather positions on birds, the following diagram is complementary to the “WINGS” diagram in the other thread;
There are a very large number of body feathers from various birds used for fly-dressing.Of course, one must know where to find them. The diagram below should help.The most common areas for selecting feathers are the Neck, ( nape), Throat, Breast,Back, Rump, Flank, Thigh,and Tail. It should be noted that many game and other birds are skinned by splitting them down the front! So breast feathers will of course be on the upper right and left of the skin, and flank feathers on the lower leaft and right!Birdbody;
For viewing PDF files as books etc, I recommend this. Very fast, lots of features, and free;
http://www.docu-track.com/home/prod_user/PDF-XChange_Tools/pdfx_viewer/
For copying info like the above from the web ( you have my permission to copy my material for personal use) I recommend this;
http://www.evernote.com/products/
Also free for private use, and will copy anything from anywhere on the web, including images, complete pages, posts etc. Can be installed as a plug-in in your browser or in the context menu.
TL
MC
FURNACE - Has a very dark, black or blue dun list next to the stem and on the tips of the fibres. In between the dark list and the tips is a good color, usually a red, yellow, white or silver… However! Nowadays the term ?Furnace? means a hackle with black list and red tips!
Until 1885 the terms, ?Furnace? and ?Coch y bonddu? were used interchangeably for the same hackles, which were either black list/red tips, or black list/ red / black tips. Hofland was the first author to use the term ?coch a bonddu? in 1839, and specified the colour as ?red and black? Francis Francis also specified ?A dark red hackle with a black streak up the middle?. A number of other authors made similar observations.
This meant that to that date, the hackle used to represent a Coch y Bonddu beetle was dark red with a black list, which is now universally referred to as ?Furnace?.
G.M Kelson, who wrote for the ?Fishing Gazette?, on salmon flies, published his idea for ?standardising? the hackle descriptions! He stated that furnace was black/red and coch y bonddu was black/red/black. He also invented several other quite fanciful names, like ?Blue Furnace? etc. Not a single fly-dresser or angler, of the many who replied to the Gazette, agreed with him! When challenged, he admitted simply inventing most of the names. Strangely though, Kelson?s ?misnomers? have gradually taken over!!! Many are generally used today.
Kelson was also the centre of some other controversies. The most famous one being when R.B. Marston, the editor of the ?Fishing Gazette?, publically completely dismantled some of his theories and ideas on salmon flies. This was accompanied by a famous cartoon ?The Inky Boy?. Dr.Andrew Herd has already provided the background on this here ?The Gaudy Salmon Fly? The site is a bit temperamental, and some menu items don?t work properly. may be a problem with my software?
The correct spelling of furnace was also once ?Furness?, an old English Game breed which was popular in the Hundreds of Furness in Lancashire.
This might only be of minor interest, but it has a major effect on the interpretation of patterns used and published before that time! The outstanding example here being the ?Greenwells Glory?, for which the good Canon Greenwell specified a coch y bonddu hackle. A hen hackle was most likely used for the original, which was dressed as a wet fly, and there were virtually no coch y bonddu hens in existence, and there still are not! Skues actually stated on several occasions that they did not exist. This is not exactly true, I have some coch y bonndu hen hackles, but they are the only ones I have ever seen in small sizes, and are very very rare, to the extent that they may only be treated as ?freak? capes.
So, the original feather used for the Greenwells Glory, ( dressed by James Wright of Sprouston), used a light furnace hen hackle. Nowadays, for light flies, a ?Greenwell? hackle is used, this is a light or ?ginger? furnace hackle. This description has only been used since about 1950. Some dressers prefer much darker feathers for these flies, for specific hatches like the “Large Dark Olive”, ( Baetis rhodani) and use a dark furnace hackle, or a coch-y-bonndhu “henny cock” which is a soft cock hackle.
TL
MC
Wow that is one big load of info!
Thanks,
Skip