Need a hook lesson

Good day Tyers,

I’m realatively new to the sport, and newer stil to the art of tying flies. I’m starting to compile the necessary items I will need to begin tying my own flies. But, the one thing that is really throwing me for a loop is when it comes to picking the hooks.

All the info that I have been able to gather says, “Get yourself an assoertment of hooks.” Now sizes of hooks I understand. What is confusing me is down turned eye vs. straight eye Is there really that much of a difference? What is the purpose of these two types?

I’ve been reading and hunting for the answers to these questions to no avail.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Jim

Hi Fivedials,

Welcome to the group. Let us hear from you on a frequent basis.

Where you are just starting out buying hooks, stick with the turned down eye. You can tie 99% of your flies on a turned down eye and be correct. Worry about the other types of eyes once you have your basic stock purchased. Hope that helps. 8T :smiley:

If you read through Al Campbell’s Fly Tying instruction (start with the Beginners) he explains the hooks as he goes.
Each lesson builds on the previous ones, it really works.
http://www.flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/

Hi Fivedials,

The short answer is that for practical purposes, it makes no difference. Different fishermen and tiers like different styles of hooks, and they are available, so you see different eye styles used.

Richard Talleur did some testing and found that a standard length dry fly hook had better hooking properties than other styles, but a standard length dry fly hook with a straight eye will also do well.

Traditionally, most flies are tied on down eye hooks. These work well for all my tying, and I would recommend them for all of a beginning tiers tying, as did a post above.

There is one exception. Small flies, i.e.: #18 and smaller are easier to tie on straight eye hooks.

Regards,

Gandolf

as usual, great information already posted.

i like both eye styles.
It will become the tiers preference on which style they like.

That’s right, you will work out later with experience which styles you like for different patterns. When I started tying I must have spent hundredds on various hooks inspired with patterns saying what I should tie the fly on, and still never have the appropriate hook in stock for what I wanted! I suggest, just to start off with, that if you stick to a dry fly down eyed hook for all, in maybe three sizes, and a long shank also you will be on your way. You can use the dry for wets and nymphs as well as the dry’s. Same with the longer shanks. Get the rest later.

and a couple packs of down eye 3x long streamer hooks, for the bugger and others. :smiley:

:smiley: Fivedials,
Welcome to the Family,there is no “Right or Wrong” hook, I use straight eye pretty much for everything I just like it better. Do as Ladyfisher suggested and have FUN and before you realize it You too will be another “Old F***” Er I mean Experienced Tyer.
And Remember It ain’t Rocket Science IT’S an Addicition!
Bill

the downside to the addiction… A THIN WALLET! :lol:

And then there are hooks with NO eyes! :lol: :lol: :lol:

When I am tying classic patterns, I try to use the correct hook, but on the more modern flies, anything goes! Some salmon flies even use up-turned hook eyes. And then, there is the San Juan Bow Worm! And everyone needs some scud and nympth hooks.

I keep a good supply (thanks to Cabelas) of straight-eye streamer hooks because I tie mostly Buggers, Crawfish, Helgramites, Hoppers/Crickets, Streamers, Clousers, Bucktails, and foam flies. Once you get going for a bit, you’ll figure out what you like to tie and fish with the most.

It takes a while to amass a good stock-pile of hooks. I would do much better at it if I stayed out of our swaps, but what can I say?..I’m addicted.

Semper Fi!

I use either straight or turned up eye hooks in sizes 20 and smaller. It allows me a bit more room to wind and finish the head. Be careful to check th eye for extraneous head cement

Jim,

I think you’ve come to the right place. There’s tons of resources in the beginning fly tying section here on FAOL, as well as detailed instructions on tying patterns. Here’s a website that might be helpful for you in sorting out different hook styles and manufacurer model numbers:

http://www.killroys.com/hooks/hookchrt.htm

There are also other charts on Killroys that show bead sizes for different size hooks for tying bead head nymphs etc.

Not sure what fish you’re planning to target there in N Ohio, but here’s some suggestions for a basic assortment of hooks for a beginning fly tyer, and some fairly easy patterns targeting panfish, trout, bass and steelhead (in tribs) using Mustad hooks (they’re decent, inexpensive and widely available):

Dry fly Hook for adult caddis, and mayfly duns, spinners, and emergers:

Mustad 94840 (less expensive than the AC94840, it is “the standard” dry fly hook 1xf wire, turned down eye) sizes 12, and 14 to start, adding 16 and 18 as you get more proficient. Good patterns are Elk Hair Caddis, Sparkle Duns and a basic hackled Catskill tie like an Adams. You can imitate a ton of caddis and mayflies by varying colors of body, wing, hackles etc. Once you get these down, most other patterns will come pretty easily. Think initially in terms of tying these up in light (creamish), medium (tan or gray), and dark (dark brown or dark gray) for panfish and trout. If you get into trout flies, once you’re ready for the really small ones size 20 and smaller go with a good quality turned up eye dry fly hook to improve hookset and holding power like a Daiichi 1330.

Wet Flies (for subsurface emerging and drowned adult caddis and mayflies):

Mustad 3906B (1xlong, 1xheavy wire,turned down eye) size 14 for soft hackles Partridge and Orange, Partridge and Green, and Partridge and Muskrat) Great searching subsurface patterns for trout, also good for panfish. You could use the dry fly hook above, but the heavier wire will help sink the fly.

Nymphs:

Mustad 9672 (3xlong, standard wire, turned down eye) sizes 12, 14 and 16. You’ll get a lot of use out of these hooks for nymphs, bead heads and small wooly buggers. Good patterns include Rock Worms, Gold Ribbed Hares Ear, Pheasant Tail (in size 16), and Prince Nymphs in unweighted, weighted with lead or lead sub wire and bead heads. Other uses for this hook include small wooly buggers and even small muddler minnows on the size 12. These patterns are great for trout and panfish. A black stonefly nymph pattern size 12 and 14 is also a great winter steelhead pattern on this hook.

Streamers and bucktails:

Mustad 9674 (4xlong, 1xheavy, straight eye) or the Mustad 9672 (which is 3xlong, but in larger sizes than above) a good hook for muddlers, bucktail streamers like Black Nose Dace, Mickey Finns, muddlers, wooly buggers, Clousers, Crayfish imitations, Marabou and feather wing streamers, Matukas etc etc. (and even Grass Hoppers/Crickets in size 12 for top water) Think sizes 8 10 12 for trout. Maybe add some 4 and 6s for bass. Try wooly buggers in black, Olive with and without coneheads, Marabou streamers in white (for shad imitations), black and clousers in chartreuse, black, orange and white for easy ties for LM and SM bass, and in dark colors for large trout and steelhead (but check regs for hook gap size restrictions on tribs for Steelhead).

For steelhead

Mustad AC91742 ( the extra expense of the AC chemically sharpened microbarb point is worth it, IMHO for steelhead) This is an “egg hook” for glow bugs, sucker spawn, crystal meth flies and other Great Lakes type stuff. Check with locals for sizes

Mustad 36890, AC36890 or Daiitchi 2441, in sizes 4, 6, 8 for “traditional” western steelhead patterns like Green Butt Skunk, Freight Train, Comets etc.

This is offered as a starting point, there are no “rules” as such, but these hook selections have the “proper” proportions for different fly types (dry, wet, nymphs and streamers) which is often mostly determined by shank length rather than just hook size, and of course the lighter wire on the dry fly hooks help to float the dry and are not as pricey as some of the chemically sharpened hooks out there. Keep asking questions, and if you have specific fly patterns you’re looking to tie, or fish you’re targetting let us know.

To keep initial costs down, you can get a lot of mileage out of some:

Bucktails black, chartreuse and natural for clousers, and bucktail streamers for bass.

Marabou in black, purple and green for wooly buggers for bass, trout (and panfish in small sizes) with bead heads (or coneheads for large hooks).

ComparaHair (also called coastal deer hair) To save on a big initial investment on dry fly hackle you can tie up dry flies like sparkle duns and no hackle Elk Hair Caddis. They work great, and you can match a ton of caddis and mayflies with these styles just by varying size and wing and body color. A 3" x 3" patch is good for at least 100 flies. Dry Fllies without hackle won’t float as well as hackled flies in rough water, but they’re fine (and argueably more effective) in still to moderate flowing water, are perhaps even better than hackled flies for selective trout. Panfish love 'em too.

Wet Fly Nymph material is generally inexpensive. A pheasant tail feather, some dubbing, green and orange floss, and a package of grouse feathers (partridge skin is better but more expensive)

For Hackle, you can often get 2 1/2 necks, say a 1/2 of brown and a 1/2 of grizzly (the combo for an Adams ) for the price of 1 neck if you check around. Denny at Conranch is a great resource for hackle with great service, quality and very reasonable prices. He’s a sponser of FAOL (and the moderator of this forum) at www.conranch.com

Hope this helps. Have fun!

peregrines