On these flies I realize that neatness is not a big deal but when I wrap on a chenille body and then Palmer wind on a hen hackle they generally look lousy. The hackle sometimes lies down into the spaces between the chenille wraps but sometimes it doesen’t because I might want to vary the pitch of the hackle winds. It is the chenille that gives the trouble. Palmer winding on a smooth/harder body looks good.
An suggestions ?? Thanks.
Wind the hackle on the chennile and THEN wind the chennile on the hook…bullet proofs it a bit too.
…lee s.
Lee: You’re gonna have to explain that procedure in a bit more detail to me…color me confused.
Ray: What diameter chenille are you using? Probably dropping down a size will help. One other trick to try is to NOT let go of the chenille when wrapping. This can either be done using the rotary feature of your vise or by leaving the thread to the rear. By not letting it go, the chenille will twist upon itself as you wrap…making it denser as you go.
I still think using a thinner diameter chenille will help the most. I use medium for all my WBer’s. I have large and I never use it for the reason you highlighted.
Ray,
Try wrapping the hackle in the opposite direction to the chenille??
Andy
As featured in Trout Fisherman, UK, Jan 2005! I’d still rather be fishin’!!
I tried using “Small” chenille on a #8 hook and it did a lot of good. Thanks.
I also tried to wind the chenille without letting it go slack as suggested. This was a mistake! I am left-handed and your concept apparently held true but in my case the chenille UNwound and destroyed itself.
The “wind-on-the-thread” first technique for peacock herl always works for me but haven’t tried it with chenille yet.
Wrap the chenille and hackle in different directions, or make the body out of something else. Dubbing, yarn, peacock, ostrich, floss, tinsel. . .
well, I agree w/ ronmt this time.
I don’t see how hen hackle coould be long enough. I like folding the hackle too as I wrap it on.
very nice bugger, ron, btw.
mgj
What do you guys mean by, folding the hackle?
Ray,
Ya know, I never even considered that would happen with southpaws. Experiment gone bad, but we both learned something! 
I suppose I should be able to duplicate it by reverse wrapping it as a right hander. Correct?
folding hackle…
the easiest way to explain it would be sweep the barbules from either side of the quill together between your fingers. then wrap the quill side of the feather around the shank. you’ll have to do this a time or two as you progress to the bend of the hook. takes a while to get the hang of, but after a while it becomes second nature. works well also for soft hackled collars.
someone else may be able to explain it better than I did.
mgj
I never quite understood the reasoning behind folding hackles. The exact same thing happens when you wrap them on a hook. Perhaps it’s the economist in me.
As for Ray using hen hackles…GO FOR IT! My prettiest WBer is someone else’s ugliest.
[This message has been edited by LWilliams (edited 08 March 2005).]
I’ve always used hen hackles because they are softer and more webby. The WB pictured looks great but I don’t know what a "sabble’ hackle is (G). I agree with the concern about hen hackles being too short but then I tried Whiting Silver grade hen necks. Wow, what an improvement. With them I can tie up to a size 6 or 8 with a single longest feather while the smaller neck feathers are for smaller wet flies.
I want to thank all you guys for the comments.
I quit using chenille for most of my buggers. Instead, I use various homemade dubbing blends that include materials like angora goat, rabbit, and other furs. I ususally mix in different colors or synthetics to add highlights. Some of the prepackaged dubbing mixes intended for stoneflies (like Kaufmann’s blends) and other big nymphs work well too. The dubbing does not “encourage” the hackle to a position you don’t want. After the fly is complete, you can pick out the dubbing to make a really buggy fly.
I also use hen hackle for my buggers because I fish them a lot in fast water. The stiffer saddle hackles cause them to “helicopter”, twisting my tippet.
Another way I tie buggers with great success is no wound hackle but a dubbed body or uni mohair body with a barred mallard flank collar dyed to match. If you stroke the fibers back as you wrap it makes a deadly bugger. I also like the hen pheasant back feathers for the same thing, but on smaller flies. I usually tie these with a bead head for weight only and they are a joy to cast and won’t twist your leader.
Just another approach you might want to try.
[This message has been edited by cctyer (edited 08 March 2005).]
Hi Jokey. You reallly guessed wrong on this one. I’ve been tying for about 50 years and have been leading classes for about 10. My main incentive is to seek out the easiest way for my newbies to improve.
Ray; If you stroke the chenille between your fingers. One way the fibres lay flat and the cat Purrs. The Other way and the fibres stand on end and the cat Howls.
If memory serves me well. Left Handers should have the cat Howling so that the chenille will not unwind. Have Fun. Jax
I’m a much better Fly fisher when talking fishing, than when I’m Actually Fly fishing!
OK, this should probably be tying tips, but try this…always tie in your hackle at the rear, the tie it in sideways…ie, inside of the feather at the hookshank…then wrap BETWEEN the chenille wraps…the hackle automatically folds, you have twice the fuzziness, and all with a minimum of problems.