I made some furled leaders using Uni 6/0 thread and have used them twice now. They make my casting look and perform much better than I thought they would. I was fishing size 20 BWO with about 2’ of 6X tippet and the turn over was fantastic. However the darn thing sinks like a rock. I coated it with Johnson’s paste wax and found that the treatment only lasted a couple of hours. Fly floatant lasted even shorter. I have read that some people treat their flys with RainX or Scotch Guard. I wonder if anyone has tried this on their furled leaders with any success. What other tips can you suggest that will float the darned thing? If no one has used RainX, I will give it a try and let you know what my results prove to be, but I suspect that it will make the leader too stiff. Overall, I give furled leaders a B- at this point in time.
Use Mucilin. Apply liberally. Work it into the leader. Wipe off excess. Once you get it worked into the leader, you will not need to use as much on subsequent applications.
Mucilin is the best however Johnson or Treewax Paste wax will work. You must use enough to fill the grooves in the leader. Think of it this way. Uni thread is slightly heavier than water, not quite neutral. By filling the grooves with a lighter than water material you are essentially increasing the volume of the leader and reducing its overall specific density. It other words, don’t wipe off all the excess. I will generally treat my leader with Mucilin in the morning and again at lunch time. If you have to treat your’s every two hours that is a small price to pay for better performance on other points.
I do not recommend water proofers such as Water Shed or RainX. They will do little to aid floation and you are correct in your assumption that they will stiffen the leader.
Good luck and don’t give up on the furled leaders quite yet.
[This message has been edited by Jim Cramer (edited 23 October 2005).]
One of the reasons I dislike furled leaders is the problem you point out. It also seems logical that if each strand of Uni Thread is slightly heavier than water, furling several strands will result in a thread that is considerably heavier than water. Does the addition of some type of floatant, of course that adds even more weight all along the leader, aid in keeping the leader on the surface? Not in my limited experience.
Personally (yeah, and I’m sure I’ll be ridiculed), I think furled leaders stink and are nothing but a fad. Once fly fishers realize the real drawbacks, this type of leader will go the way of the Nehru jacket, sharkskin suits, ‘Ketchum Release’ tool, etc.
So far I have resisted the lure of braided leaders, but I have fallen to the seduction of silk lines. Based largly on ignorance tempered with a bit of guess, I would think that treating a furled leader as you would a silk line might be the ticket. Starting w/ a clean leader, rub in w/ the fingers, a mixture of spar varnish and boiled linseed oil. Apply multiple times, drying inbetween. When properly varnished, red tin Muclin applied before each outing would provide floatation. Like silk lines, furled leaders are heavier than water, so the key to makeing them float is to make them “greasy” to sit on top of the water, and “sealed” so they do not absorb water. [url=http://www.overmywaders.com/:6e4d4]http://www.overmywaders.com/[/url:6e4d4]
This website has excellent and compleate instructions for the proper restoration of silk lines.
AgMD
I am not nearly ready to give up on the furled leaders, just looking for a way to improve performance. I think two trips is not nearly enough time to quit, afterall, I’m still using my lucky hat (at least it was on the White river in Arkansas). However, since my move to the Yakima, Washington, area, I am doubting it. Alas, oh me, what can be worse for a fly fisher that to allow DOUBT to creep in to the mistique and mojo of a lucky hat? Am I doomed, damned, or just dumb out of luck?
Jim
Catching isn’t the only way of measuring the success of a fishing trip.
[This message has been edited by 4beader (edited 23 October 2005).]
J Castwell, of course you are quite correct. I knew I had seen the Curry piece elsewhere but memory being what it isn’t I thought I was doing darn well to remember as little as I did. In fact if were not for the site name of “over my Waders” I doubt if I could have come up with it at all. There really is nothing wrong with my filing system, but the retrieval system doesn’t work worth a darn.
AgMD
I will give Mucilin a try and see if it works better for me than the paste wax I have been using. I seem to remember a post a while back about purchasing Mucilin in drug stores. I did a quick search only to find nothing like I remember. Can anyone point me it the right direction on this? I did find the post on red tin vs. green tin and will use red tin if I can find it.
You are using the wrong logic. Rather than the weight of the leader you should consider its specific gravity. Whether looking at a single thread or multiple threads furled together the specific gravity remains the same. Remember that as you add threads you also increase the volume.
Whether an object will float or not is dependent upon its weight compared to the weight of the water it will displace. (Surface tenion is another separate issue and one that applies to most dry flies.)
Now as you add a lighter than water paste to fill the voids and groves in in the furled leader you will further increase the volume and reduce the overall specific gravity of the leader.
An extreme example would be to consider a lead brick. If I package it in enough foam the weight of the entire package would increase, but now the brick (package) would float.
Regards,
Jim Cramer
[This message has been edited by Jim Cramer (edited 23 October 2005).]
I agree with tyeflies on this one.
They get blown all over in the wind, twist like crazy, sink like a stone, and they slow down line speed causing an open loop. They even cost me a casting competition. I wasted 1/2 a season on the “fad”, I cut them off and put them in a safe place…the trash!!
Okay, maybe my logic is incorrect. Maybe the art & science of specific gravity, water displacement, or whatever, suggests or says that furled leaders(untreated or properly treated) should float. All I can say is that after using 5 different furled leaders made by three people, for two seasons, my opinion is from personal experience. Others have a different point of view and opinion about these leaders. That’s okay. I’m not trying to convince anyone not to use them. By the same token, I don’t care to be told how dumb I must be for not using them. That has happened more than once(not here but while fishing).
I have been using furled leaders for three seasons now.
The first two seasons I did not care for them at all as JC said can’t keep your glasses clean, but after some experience conditioning them as Jim Cramer stated as well a tuning them with the corerct tippet size and legnth they truly are the cats behind for a gentle presentation.
The trick is to work the paste into the leader well and maintain it. I like to fiddle with my tools so it works well for me.
Some may not be so inclined… Not a darn thing wrong about that either!
I, also, make my own furled leaders, thanks to Kathy Scott’s DVD, and since I am a nymph fisherman, they better sink or I won’t use them! The first one I make that will not sink, I will send it to you at no charge. I hope you can get them to float since I think the “turn over” factor is really good with a furled leader. I really like them for my style of nymph fishing. I do not use a “strike indicator” and am constantly watching the end of my fly line. The Kelvar furled leaders have been my favorite material I have used so far and I think they sink faster than mono. I am constanly trying new material and if I come across one that does float well, I will let you know so you can try it. Good luck and good fishing.
Interesting to see this post regarding the furled leaders. My first few trips with my new leaders were the best dry fly fishing trips I had to that point. While treating the leader seemed to be a drag, the way they floated and cast more than made up for the added 5 minutes to treat the leader. I just use float paste, worked in really good. I treat them in the morning as I string up, and after a break around mid day. The tip of the leader, after a few hours of fishing and a few fish, does need to be retreated more often than the main body of the leader, but I am changing flies far more often than I need to retreat the tip of the leader, and it doesnt take much time to do at all. Are they a fad though? It wasnt long ago that anyone with a bobber on their leader while nymph fishing was laughed at.