Material sorting catagories

All about flies Fly Tying
1

I was only half joking about a server to house a material database, and that was just the server part. I’ve seen a few different software products for material databases, and thought I just write my own. Creating a (simple) database is not the issue. The issue, and the question I’m asking everyone is: How detailed should the material be categorized, sub-categorized, sub-sub-categorized etc. This will just be an Access DB with a simple entry screen.

Feathers will likely be the biggest category, so lets focus on those to start. These are just a few ideas to give you an idea what I’m thinking.

#Hackle
-saddle
-neck
++dry
++hen

#Skins
-Partridge
-Pheasant
++Ring-neck
++Amherst
++Golden

#Misc
-Ostrich
+plumes

-Peacock
++herl
++swords
++eyes

-Duck
+flank
=Mallard
=Wood
=Teal
+CDC
+wings

-Turkey
+flank
+quills
+marabou
=plumes
=blood
+biots

Once I get a database structure (schema) defined the database tables are easily created from there. Then a simple interface entry system to add the actual data.

Any ideas/comments/suggestions?

2

Bass_Bug, I sort of go like this:
Bourban: Knob Creek
Sour Mash: JD
Scotch: Glen Morangie
Then I move on to the beers. :rolleyes:
Coughlin

3

You know, Access, and database in general, is the only Office program I was never able to teach myself.:cry:
I guess it all depends on how detailed you want to get. For feathers, I would probably start with wet or dry, then species, type and color. Hair, I would just leave off wet/dry.
Synthetics is where it is really going to get nuts. So many types, styles, colors and brands. Do EP Fibers and Congo Hair go in the same category?
With Hooks, at least you have the mfr’s description to work with.
This sounds like a Major Undertaking.
Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress.

Kirk

4

so are you going to cross ref them say like for trout salmon steelhead bass and crappie or such
Ghost

5

Shrinks speak of some disorder where folks claiming to be cooks spend all their time clipping recipes without ever building a cake…

Cataloging is a great idea, but will it help you find a particular material after someone else cleans your bench off just once? That is the real question, “How do you facilitate retrieval to build a fly?” I remember most of what I have, finding it is the problem and it gets more difficult every year…
art

6

Managing inventory almost my entire life has made me realize, the accounting system is never the problem, it’s the maintenance.

In other words, if your ultimate goal is to keep track of what you have on hand, you need to be EXTREEMELY diligent making entries to your database when you buy or consume materials. In the real world, smart fly shops have invoicing and purchasing to manage that and cycle counts to fix the errors that ultimately develop.

Without that, you will spend all of your time making database entries, doing cycle counts or a physical inventory; not fun.

Besides, it’s whole lot more fun buying three spools of 8/0 black UNI thread only to find out you already have 6 at home!

But have fun with it regardless! :slight_smile:

7

Right now I have all my tying material in one big spreadsheet. The first column is sorted by general type. Feathers, hairs, dubbing’s, yarns/chenilles/etc, threads/wires, hooks etc. The column are mainly color, hook columns are sizes. The database will do the same but will let me add more detail per item instead. When you have size AND color (think dumbbell eyes, stick on eyes, cone heads, beads and the like, you a spreadsheet for each item to get all the pertinent info listed. Hooks are very difficult to track in a flat file like this. If you have hook type down the side (wet, dry, streamer etc.) and sizes across the top (…6, 4, 2 ,1/0, etc), you need a line for every length, wire size etc…

Not sure how cross referencing fish species would help organize material? When I’m looking for hair to spin for a humpy, muddler or Dahlberg diver, I’m looking for hair species or color not the fish I’ll use it on. But that’s why I’m asking for input because I don’t have all the answers.

Coughlin, I like where your mind is, but…get your mind back on track!!

The idea behind this is to catalog the materials to have listed what I have, what I need, and want I want etc. I myself keep most of my materials generally separated. Feathers divided into different drawers in my cabinet, hair in another, all hooks in same area of desk etc. I don’t see a need for a locater system, but thats just a matter of adding another field to each items database record.

The main thing is a classification system to separate as dictated by each items needs.

8

Part of the fun in rummaging through my desk drawers and tubs filled with material is finding something that either a. brings back memories, b. gives me an idea for a slightly differnet pattern or c. makes me say “holy crap where’d THAT come from?”. Knowing exactly where to go to get my material wouldn’t be much fun (to me anyways).

And there’s all that maintenance (I develop/maintain databases for a living) …

And the BIGGEST reason - if my wife ever got hold of my inventory list and actually sat down and figured out how much I’ve spent on all this stuff …

well I don’t even want to think about it.

Good luck Bass_bug

9

Bass Bug,

Good luck, When I retired I considered putting together a data base and cataloging articles from my collection of angling magazines. I quickly gave it up as too much effort.

I’ve been tying and collecting materials for over 60 years ( fly tiers never throw anything away). About 20 years ago one of my friends (?) told my wife that I had more stuff than most fly shops. A few years into retirement I started working part time in a fly shop and since then my inventory has increased significantly. I once thought of doing a database like you are proposing and the idea lasted about a nano-second. I decided that it was much easier to keep my materials well organized. I have four oak cabinets with a total of 87 drawers, all labeled, for easy identification. Hooks are organized in a separate file for easy access. Surplus and bulky items such as bucktails rabbit skins and craft fur are stored in large boxes all labeled, and easy to access when needed.

Back to your database - the natural materials such as hair, furs and feathers would be rather straight forward because there is a limited number (although a large number) of different types. When you get into the synthetics - flash materials, misc body materials (braids, plastic ribbing, foam, tubing …), synthetic wing materials etc etc; you would probably need to list by product name.

But back to your question as to how detailed the categorization needs to be depends on the information you want to access. In my mind I think of it as an organization chart and to be useful it needs to go as far down the chain as possible otherwise you are just recording generalizations.

For example - ( hope this makes sense)

Feathers

Chicken/Duck/ Pheasant… (bird species)

Hackle/ Body/Quills (Feather type)
( From now on I’ll expand on only the first item )

saddle/ neck/bulk (hackle type)

rooster/hen (sex)

dry/wet/salt (use)

natural/dyed (processed)

grizzly/brown/badger/ginger… (colors)

10-12/12-14/14-16… (size range, assuming each saddle will span two sizes)

1/2/3/4… (quantity in stock)

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Jim Cramer

10

Bass Bug,

Good luck, When I retired I considered putting together a data base and cataloging articles from my collection of angling magazines. I quickly gave it up as too much effort.

I’ve been tying and collecting materials for over 60 years ( fly tiers never throw anything away). About 20 years ago one of my friends (?) told my wife that I had more stuff than most fly shops. A few years into retirement I started working part time in a fly shop and since then my inventory has increased significantly. I once thought of doing a database like you are proposing and the idea lasted about a nano-second. I decided that it was much easier to keep my materials well organized. I have four oak cabinets with a total of 87 drawers, all labeled, for easy identification. Hooks are organized in a separate file for easy access. Surplus and bulky items such as bucktails rabbit skins and craft fur are stored in large boxes all labeled, and easy to access when needed.

Back to your database - the natural materials such as hair, furs and feathers would be rather straight forward because there is a limited number (although a large number) of different types. When you get into the synthetics - flash materials, misc body materials (braids, plastic ribbing, foam, tubing …), synthetic wing materials etc etc; you would probably need to list by product name.

But back to your question as to how detailed the categorization needs to be depends on the information you want to access. In my mind I think of it as an organization chart and to be useful it needs to go as far down the chain as possible otherwise you are just recording generalizations.

For example - ( hope this makes sense)

Feathers

Chicken/Duck/ Pheasant… (bird species)

Hackle/ Body/Quills (Feather type)
( From now on I’ll expand on only the first item )

saddle/ neck/bulk (hackle type)

rooster/hen (sex)

dry/wet/salt (use)

natural/dyed (processed)

grizzly/brown/badger/ginger… (colors)

10-12/12-14/14-16… (size range, assuming each saddle will span two sizes)

1/2/3/4… (quantity in stock)

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Jim Cramer

11

Darn it ,Jim, I could have saved the time reading your 2nd post and started a data base:p:rolleyes::razz::razz:.

12

Bam,
I managed an Inv Control dept for 12 years myself, thats the main reason I keep everything organized in the first place. Also have been in the IT field for over 20 years, so the techie in me is driving the database idea. I currently keep 90% of my materials listed on a 6 page speadsheet that I print once a year (the rest of the year i make notes on it as I buy items or items i need). What got me thinking about this was the thread from Iceman listing his materials and then 8T’s workbook idea. I just figured if I’m going to expand the the spreadsheet to a work book, thats really just a database anyway. Using Access instead of Excel, just adds more functionality.

13

Bass:

You don’t know what I tried ONCE but here goes:

Just like at my job, I created an inventory master and bill of materials for every fly pattern I tied which in my world is easy since I don’t tie patterns, but rather generic flies where I just vary the colors & sizes of hooks.

For example I tie a size 16 Sulphur Thorax dry fly so the bill of materials was:

(1) - Daiichi 1180 hook size 16

(1) - Foot of Gudebrod 8/0 Lt Yellow Thread (Inventorying wire for security companies taught me this is IMPOSSSIBLE to get right)

(1/100) - of a package of light grey Hi Viz

(1/100) - of a package of Yellow Microfibbettes

(1/200) - of a package of Superfine dubbing

So if I tied a dozen Sulphurs, I plug 12 in to my “billing” system and my inventory would be depleted 12 hooks, 12 feet of thread (or about 15% of a spool), 12/100 of a package of Fibbettes (or about 10%), 12/100 of a package of Hi Viz (or about 10%) and 12/200 of a bag of dubbing or 5%.

While this system had the advantage of automatically depleting my inventory once I set up all of the bills of materials; it was hardly exact just like the real word of inventory control in an environment where you are USING inventory to complete a job versus selling inventory, as in a retail environment. For example, in the real world we were always long or short on wire or other consumables we didn’t have on the bill of materials. (Notice I didn’t include head cement, glue, wax, etc).

But if you try the retail model in a fabrication environment, you spend all of your time doing cycle counts and inventory adjustments because you have no automated or accurate way of keeping track of what you use without looking and counting which to me wasn’t worth the effort when a quick look-see in a few drawers or Rubbermaid containers accomplished the same thing in WAY less time.

It helps that I pre-plan the flies I plan to tie by making a list first, at the beginning of “tying season”. And I also tie a minimum of two dozen of every fly I tie. This REALLY helps me manage my inventory.

My inventory control system now, consists of an order process which is me sitting at the computer and thinking, “hey, I need to tie some beetles”

Then I check my inventory, which is me walking down to the basement, opening a few drawers and saying, “hey, I need to order some foam sheets”.

Then the order process begins, which is me ordering some foam on line along with a few extra sheets just in case.

And in a day or two when the foam arrives, I check the inventory for the next pattern I plan to tie.

Maybe too simple and uncomplicated for some folks, but I’d rather develop a system for my pantry then my fly tying stuff. Somehow buying a can of Green Giant Nibblets Corn at the market when there is 12 at home, bothers me a whole lot more than 6 packs of yellow Fibbettes. :wink:

Have fun!

14

Another most important aspect of effective sorting, storing and retrieving is to label everything. Nothing is more irritating than to have a piece of material in your hand, hoping to get more of it, and have no idea where you first got it. Good luck.

15

AND why you even bought it in the first place!

16

if a fly tying material inventory system on an excel spreadsheet doesnt send up a red flag to reorder when youre out of a particular product, what good is it?? do you go to the spread sheet every time you tie a hares ear and subtract actual material used?

17

That’s the “Maintenance” thing Norm…for me that’s a deal breaker.

18

I dont mark it as needed to buy unless I use up much of the item when tying. When I notice I need something I’ll make a note on my sheet. Like I posted earlier, I’ll go thru my material once a year, straighten stuff up if needed (it always needs it it), and mark off the materials on hand to the sheet. Note what’s low, or just what I want. The want list is usually from seeing a fly pattern I want to tie in Fly Tyer, or somewhere on-line. We’ve all had this happen a time or two. You see a new pattern that just strikes you as “oooh! I gotta try that one”. Then you start poking around your stuff to see if you have everything in the recipie, onlyto find you dont ahvethe right hook size or some other minor item needed.

For me, I take the printed (hopefully updated) spreadsheet with me when I know I’ll be near a Cabela’s, Bass Pro or known flyshop etc. I always look for clearance tying materials and more often then not find 1 or 2 items I buy. I dont know about you guys, but I cant remember every color/size of eveything I have. Like many tyers, I’ve bought items I already had and really didnt need another of. This is usually no problem except I’d rather buy something new to expand my material inventory then to stock pile fewer number of different items. Thats where the spreadsheet helps.

19

I here by sware to be disorganised and noncomittele, just an old red neck who replaces stuff when he cant find it.
Ghost

20

It is sooooo relaxing being a solid type B personality.

In other words, “I think I have some of that, now I wonder where I put it last year…”

I have to be way too organized at work, I can’t be that way at home too.