Line question?

Gear & Reviews
1

If you were buying a 3wt rod would you get a 3 wt line or beef it up a little and go with a 4wt? I mostly fish small creeks and streams so the 3wt line I am sure will do all that I want. However, (I’m basing this on my understanding that an over sized line will cast farther?) I am not able to cast very far, say at the best 35ft or so, and when I do get the rare opportunity to really zing one out there, I’d love to cast farther.

There just isn’t many things in this world prettier than seeing that line sail out there in a good tight loop and watch that fly settle in nice and easy. To me that is just living poetry in action. Of course I have to watch someone else do it, because I’m hungNtree! :smiley:

thanks in advance,
hNt

2

hNt -

Generally, you overline a rod to have it load better at shorter distances and underline a rod for greater casting distance.

Depending on the 3 wt rod you are actually using, a 4 wt line might be better for the small stream fishing you do since it will load better in close. But for reaching out, a DT 3 might be a better choice, and give you better performance across the range of conditions you fish.

John

3

I agree with John on the 3 vs 4wt question. And it does depend on the rod. I have four 3wt rods: 2 seven footers, a 7’9", and a 9’. Two of these work better in close (20ft or less including leader) with the 4wt but still work well with the 3wt. Two work well at all ranges with a 3wt. All work well at longer distances, which I consider greater than 35 ft with a 3wt, with a 3wt line.

As for DT vs WF line, that depends on the specific lines and how you will use them. I have 3 and 4wt S.A. Ultra 3 lines in both DT and WF. The tapers for the first 30 feet of the WF and DT lines is identical, so their is no functional differnce for casts less than around 35 to 40 feet, including a 7 to 9ft leader. This is the case with many WF and DT lines of the same type. Beyond this, the WF for shooting for distance and the DT is better for mending. I don’t find myself using the short rods where I might need to make mends with longer lengths of line out, so I have found the DT only an advantage with the 9’ rod.

Best option is to get the rod and find someone with a 3 and 4wt line you can try. Chances are your rod will likely work just fine with either a 3 or 4wt line.

4

The way I see it, if a rod takes a 4wt line to cast well for you, then it is a 4wt rod, regardless of what is printed on the side of the blank. I would start with a DT3 and if it doesn’t work for you, go up to a DT4.

5

Hello,

Just when you think you’ve got a handle on what weight line you should be using, you find out that some fly lines aren’t really the line weight that you may initially think they are. Enter the Rio Grand and the Scientific Anglers GPX lines, that are one half line size heavier than their box end labels indicate. The idea was that by bumping them up a half line size, they’d better load faster action graphite rods. So if you can’t make up your mind between a 3 and 4 weight forward, you now have the choice of a 3.5 weight Rio Grand or S.A. GPX.

Personally, my three weight rods tend to get used only in couple of situations. Either as a dry and wet fly rod, using no additional weight, nor strike indicators. In that instance I’ve been happy with a DT-3-F. On rare occasion I’ll use a three as a pocket water nymphing rod on medium sized streams. In that case an indicator and a second small ( but weighted ) nymph may be used, or possibly and a bushy dry and a dropper. When the rods primarily engaged in that type of fishing I lean towards a WF-3 Sage Performance Taper.

Re: " There just isn’t many things in this world prettier than seeing that line sail out there in a good tight loop and watch that fly settle in nice and easy. To me that is just living poetry in action. "

Sounds like a candidate for a DT-3-F to me and distance is kind of a relative thing. If you’re looking to improve on 35 feet or so, you should be able to get there with the DT…just keep in mind that it’s a three weight rod sporting a floating line and not a nine weight with a high density shooting head.

Best, Dave

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6

Personally I like to ‘under line’. I like a smaller line diameter myself.

7

BBW, talk more about this please.

Line wts are a very interesting thing to me. Something about line wt and knots that just trips my interest trigger. A couple of more extreme examples. I go to a casting clinic that a local club has. You are suppose to bring you own equipment. I arrive with a very fast 4 wt rod and I forgot my reel in another bag. I borrow a friends reel at much insistance that it won’t work. It was loaded with 8 wt line. I am double hauling that with the 4 wt 80 plus feet and I don’t consider myself an excellent caster.

Two things led to this, the rod action was very fast indeed. A St Croix Lengend Elite; in the sales lit the action is described as Fast +. It is a 4 wt canon. Would not have been able to do that with a slow action rod, just too much load.

I run out another time carp fishing. Have two Lamson reels, one for one of my 7 wts and one for one of my 4 wts. I brought the wrong reel. 7 wt rod, 4 wt line. While I could cast this and did so to about 50’ the experience was ugly. The rod was like trying to cast a fly line with a broom stick. Yes, I am overstating that but the rod would not load very well at all.

With my own line selection these days and having many outfits to choose from I am selecting fewer line sizes than ever. On the new 8/9 wt rod, I bought 10 wt line because I also have a 10 wt. If you have 10 plus outfits, you don’t need different wt lines.

8

I have a moderate action 7’3" 3wt that I will sometime take to fish the small spring creeks. I carry two spools. One has a 3 DT the other 4 DT. If the creek I am fishing is narrow and my casts will be short than the 4 DT gets the nod. I fish Cortland 444 peach so I don’t have to worry whether or not the 4 wt line I am using is a true 4 or a 4 1/2.

You might want to check out this weeks Orvis podcast with Tom Rosenbauer. He talks about over and under lining. Go to orvis.com/podcast.

9

If the rod is faster action and you want to make it “feel” like it is a little slow, then over line it by one or two.

If the line is slow and you want to make it “feel” like it is a little faster, then underline it.

I don’t think of a 3 wt. rod as something that I would be using if I am going for distance. However, you should be able to cast a 3wt rod much further than 35 feet without any trouble assuming you have a somewhat proper casting technique.

10

Another thought. Perhaps buy or borrow the line first and then try it out on every 3 wt rod in the store and see which rod functions the best for the line wt. you are after.

Remember, the line wt. listed on the box is really rated for the first 30 ft. of line. Therefore it might be a sink tip, floater, etc. – it doesn’t matter because only the first 30 ft makes up the line wt. So, making the rod fit the line wt. may make much more sense than vice versa.

11

I know that it was basic, but still enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for the link.

12

Hi HnT

Just as the old adage, " a fly lines specified weight should be the same irrespective of taper and profile ", is no longer valid in today’s market place. Not all floating lines of a given line weight or taper will be of the same diameter. One shouldn’t assume that all three weight floating lines will be narrower in diameter throughout their working profile, than all four weight floating fly lines

When you settle on a specific weight line for your rod, some care has to be taken when shopping. While you may decide that up-lining your three weight with a four weight line is what you’d like to do. Doing so with one of today’s models that are a half line size heavier will have you going up one and half lines weights ( that would be a 4.5 weight line ) on your three weight.

If you’re operating at short distances and your rod has a faster action, this may suit you. If on the other hand you desire to cast longer distance and you haven’t developed the skills to shoot line yet. ( and judging from your description of your current casting skills, that’s seems to be where you’re at. ) then you’ll like be carrying more line in the air and feeding line out in smaller increments in an attempt to increase your distance.
This is one of the points in an anglers development where they need to weigh the benefits of casting instruction vs. trying to cure it with an equipment purchase.

Aerializing a heavier line at greater and greater distances is not easy and it’s made even more difficult if your rods on the moderate side of the action scale. So if that sounds like your casting style, then you might want to stay away from up-lining your rod.
Often when people lean towards using lighter lines than their rods are rated for, it’s because they’re looking for a finer diameter line which presents a thinner profile and less air resistance or they’ve never learned to double haul and the only way they can get greater distance is by slowly feeding out incremental amounts of line while false casting. Or they could simply be trying to make a longer gentle cast, again aerializing nearly all of the line they wish to cast. Since the lines weight was lower than the rods line weight designation, it takes a greater length of line to load the rod and likewise more line can be aerialized before the point of overload or collapse is reached. Again, since you brought up the subject of distance, a little one on one guidance with your casting might be in order.

As for line diameter for a given weight fly line, it used to be fairly simple to say that a three weight floating line is smaller in diameter than a four weight floating fly line. At one time most Double Tapers and Weight Forwards followed a fairly Plain Jane tip, taper, belly, taper, tip or running line format.

As demonstrated here: http://www.cortlandline.com/products/default.asp?id=95

However many newer fly line designs have come down the road in the last few years and while they still carry a WF or DT label on the box, they are in form far removed from the Plain Jane tapers of the past.
Some have reverse tapered bellies, compound taper and multiple bellies as can be seen here.

http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?recKey=145

http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?recKey=5

http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?recKey=132

To top that off, tapers within the same series of fly lines are sometimes tweaked a bit from the lowest lines weights that the line is being offered in, to the highest lines weight that the same line is being offered in. The simple answer, most three weight rods are not designed for the same fishing applications as eight weight rods, so in some instances the tapers are changed to fit the likely use of that weight rod.

Unless you’re going fly line shopping with a micrometer in your pocket, don’t assume that just because a fly line’s box is marked with a lesser line weight, that the entire working profile of that line will be narrower in diameter than that of fly line of another series or even the next line size up. In other words not all WF or DT 3 weight lines are going to be the same diameter at the same distance.
When you put that together with the idea that not all fly lines fit neatly into a single line weight category, it’s easy to see why choosing a new line can be confusing.

If you do get the chance to try a group of lines on your rod and find that one in particular really makes the rod pop. Take note of that lines specific series, weight and taper. ( For instance : Cortland 333 - WF-4-F ) because if you go shopping and bring home a Rio Grand WF-4-F, you will have purchased a substantially different fly line with different taper and weight characteristics.

Or you could go with plan B. Just go grab a line at the fly shop and fish on…

Best, Dave

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13

Some great replies! My personal $0.02: I currently have two 7 1/2 foot rods marked as three weights. They are similar, but not identical. One is great on creeks with a four weight line, but doesn’t have the backbone to sling it out to real distance. Does that better with a three. The second rod works great in close with a four, and can fire out decently longer casts with the same line, without folding up. I never use a three on it. Moral? Try your rod with different lines. Hopefully there’s a buddy, neighbor, or fly shop near by that could let you do that. Whatever you do, have fun.

Chuck

14

Bright yellow SA, DT3 is what I normally use on my 3 wgt rods…regardless of rod length. In fact I use the same line on a 2 wgt rod I have

15

I usually match my rod up with actualy line weight. Probably not the best solution. basically I change my casting to compensate for the rod and line. in my example, if the rod loads too soon, I shorten the amount of line out the tip and shoot the rest that is needed. or if the rod doesn’t load enough, I adjust my cast for the situation or add more line out the tip of the rod. I know not the greatest solution, but I am really weird when it comes to a 5 weight rod with a 6 weight line on it. “it’s a five weight damn it! should have 5 weight line! :x:x” :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: I don’t know why but I actually struggle with this concept.