Last week when I caught the 18 lmb and 1 large gill I encountered some problems. I figured if anybody could help me solve this problem the professionals on this forum could. I was using a 5 wt rod, floating line with a 6 lb florocarbon leader. My leader broke 3 times while trying to land some pretty good lmb. I caught a couple that went 3 lbs or better and 2 of the 3 that broke off, I never got a look at. After losing 3 of my ducktails, I decided to change to a 10 lb mono line and after doing that I only caught 1 more small lmb the rest of the day. Does floro sink faster, if I went to larger floro would that help, does mono not sink as fast or is it more visible in water, or what? Please help me if you can because as soon as someone closes the freezer door down in the south and the weather warms again I want to go back to this pond and givem a try. Also, I use barbless hooks and very seldom keep any fish. This particular landowner practically got mad at me because I did not keep all the fish I had caught and some of them were only 5 or 6 inches long. I do not want to lose my fishing privileges but I also do not want to be wasteful when it comes to good ponds like this one. Would you please give me your feedback on this also. I know these sound like some dumb questions. Thanks in advance. mathcarver 
fluorocarbon sinks more readily than monofilament. I wonder if it is your knots? Where did the leader break, at the knot was it the leader itself? if it is the leader then get a new one. If it is the knot then there are lots of good ones posted here on the site.
If it takes keeping a couple of dinks to keep the landowner happy then you might consider it. You can always use them to fertilize roses.
There are some ponds in my neck of the woods that yield some good catches of lmb & gils - usually a 6# mono leader will do the job just fine. However, there is one pond that has more of vegetation than the others and here the lmb when hooked will duck into it; in this case, I bump up to an 8# mono leader.
Some of these ponds have an abundance of fish living in them and especially with the lmb, their growth can get restricted because there’s simply too many of them. This might have something to do with that landowner getting upset about your throwing them back. One of those type ponds around here, where the lmb are especially plentiful but rarely get above 12", we keep them along with the brem, and then my fishing buddy mixes up a mustard sause and dips the cleaned fish into, shakes them up in a bag of flour and does a fish-fry job on them that would make anyone want to keep those small bass!
Like Gardenfish already inquired about those knots, one sure way of telling if that could be the problem is to check the end of the mono that had been the point of “breaking” … if the mono has a curly pig-tail look to it, a defective knot was probably the cause. Also, as you undoubtably know, wind knots are notorious for being the weak link in the leader.
Dale
I cannot answer why your leader broke without being there to see the action prior to the breaking, but, I can suggest you trying a Furled leader. I make and use a 7 foot furled leader made from 4 pound test fluorocarbon with a 4 to 5 foot section of 6 pound fluorocarbon for tippet and it works very well. The furled leader is very strong and has a great turn over of the fly and will last a very long time if taken care of. You might check out the archives here for Kathy Scott’s DVD on making your own furled leaders. After viewing her DVD, you will be making your own furled leaders and having a great time doing it! Her leader formula makes a leader about 5 to 5 1/2 foot long depending on material used. I changed her peg position measurments to increase the leader to 7 foot which I like for my style of fishing.
Hi
Flourocarbon is, for lack of a better word, “slipperier” than mono. A knot has to be secured with a few more wraps than equal test monofilament.
I suspect that your knots were no differently tied in the mono than in the flouro so that makes the knot suspect above other factors. Now it could have been old flouro that had degraded to a point of easy breakage but I believe that fouro is supposed to be less likely to degrade than mono. Please chime in here on this point others.
The furled leader is a good idea. If nothing else a short section of mono tippet could be used.
best
8)Fluorocarbon sinks faster then the same diameter mono. Finer diameter mono sinks faster than heavier mono.By switching from finer diameter fluorocarbon to larger diameter mono you at the very least double the effect and you fly will get no where near the same depth in the same amount of time.
In addition 10lb will generally be stiffer than 6Lb
and your fly will not move as freely in the water.
While bass are not generally leader shy, if the water is very clear I might try 10lb fluorocarbon and tie the fly on with a nonslip loop knot which will allow your fly to move freely.
You will also either have to allow your fly to sink longer or tie it with some extra weight to achieve the depth necessary to reach the fish.
Practice and test your knots while you are not fishing to make sure they are not a problem on the water. Not all mono knots work as well with fluorocarbon and some require an extra turn or 2
My fishing buddy fishes all the time and catches more fish than anyone deserves but he also looses some big fish every year because of “wind knots” which are really the result of poor casting technique. Check your leader often for these single overhand knots
If I remember right what I read, I think that fluorocarbon line has the tendency to cut mono line. I agree that furled leaders might work better or you could use a fluorocarbon leader. I do not mix the two and I have not had any prolems. Use the same material for leader and tippet.
I remembered looking at the line after the break offs and it was a clear or clean break and not twisted. What is a wind knot? Several of you mentioned this and I have never heard of them before. Also, how does a person keep from getting a wind knot. Like I said I am not the sharpest rock in the rockpile when it comes to some of the terminology. The knot I normally use on my leader is: I run the leader thru the eye of the hook and bring it back thru the second time, wrap the end around the leader 5 times, bring the end back thru the double loop at the eye, then back thru the last loop formed, wet the line, and then pull it up snug and tight. Also I want to thank all of you for your suggestions and tips. mathcarver
Bobby,
If it was a clean break and obviously not a knot issue then it could be a bad spool of flourocarbon. Perhaps getting a new spool that is fresher than the one before may resolve the issue.
It is a good idea to constantly check your leader for the slightest sign or wear and replace it no matter what strength it is. The slightest nick or scratch on the leader will seriously decrease its breaking strength. LMB have mouths like sandpaper that over time will scratch and wear down your leader not to mention rubbing up against under water debris. It is good habit to retie you fly every few fish to keep cutting out the wear on your leader.
The heavier the strength the leader ususally the thicker it is so it causes more resistance to sinking/ moving through the water column. By using the heavier thicker mono you fly was not fishing as deep in the water if you did not change your tactics and give it a longer time to sink that could be the reason your catch rate went down after the leader change. I think that flouro is supposed to sink faster than mono of the same strength because it is more dense.
Catching 18 LMB and loosing a few flies in fish sounds like a good day to me. I was once told by and old timer that we do not fish to save money. Just think of those lost flies as money well spent and some lessons learned.
I personally do not use floro. After getting similar break offs I decided floro’s “shelf life” wasn’t long enough me to bother with.
The term wind knot is a bit of a misnomer. They should really be called tailing loop knots. And are a product of less than perfect casting.
. The knot I normally use on my leader is: I run the leader thru the eye of the hook and bring it back thru the second time, wrap the end around the leader 5 times, bring the end back thru the double loop at the eye, then back thru the last loop formed, wet the line, and then pull it up snug and tight.
The knot you describe would be called an improved trilene knot. The problem is that unlike the clinch knot, the “improve” step doesn’t lock the knot, it only makes it harder for the knot to seat correctly.
You’d be better off if you left out this step.
. then back thru the last loop formed,
mathcarver,
If you would PM me your home address I will send you a Furled Leader made from 4 pound fluorocarbon with an attached tippet of 6 pound fluorocarbon and you could see how it works for you. I make my furled leaders with built-in loops on both ends, so, you will need a loop on the end of your fly line or you could use a Castwell Knot to attach the Furled leader to your fly line.
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I definitely agree with Dudley…and would add that you need to be very careful seating the Trilene knot…slide the loops down and be careful how the tag end is seated.
Lots of good advice on knots so I’ll leave that alone and go to the second part. I’m not a big keeper of fish myself ( I’ll eat my share, though) but I have a few pond situations like yours where the owner wants his fish population reduced. My solution is to release the smallest and the largest fish, and I’ll keep a few average ones (whatever size I’m consistently catching the most of) for the table. Giving a few dressed fish to the landowner can also be a good way to go.
Mathcarver,
If “good” (meaning big) LMB are what you want NOT to lose so often, two suggestions:
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Switch to a heavier leader that better matches the strength of your quarry. Whether flourocarbon or mono, a 4X (6-lb. test) leader is way too light if it’s big bass you seriously want to catch. Instead of your 4X leader, try 3X or 2X.
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Give up the Trilene knot and switch to the basic – and easier to tie – Improved Clinch (the line passes through the hook eye just once). With a 75% (or more) reduction in line-to-eye friction during the knot tightening phase, the Improved Clinch slips into the snug/secure finished position with less manual fussing on your part.
Joe
“Better small than, ah, knot at all.”
I agree with Joe. I also use a 4X (6lb.) tippet but then again, I’m usually not specifically trying for LMB or I would use a heavier tippet. I would use 8lb. test as a bare minimum for LMB but prefer 10lb. test or better. I got lucky when I caught my 10lb. LMB years ago using an 8lb. test tippet. Lucky that the leader held. I like to use the Duncan Loop Knot (Uni-Knot) that allows more fly action but tightens quickly like a noose with tension even on my 6lb. test fluorocarbon. I almost always take five turns when tying that knot. It has been rare when it fails and if it does fail, it usually isn’t the knot but the single line that breaks right on the hook eye (this may happen when I don’t occasionally retie the knot from continued wear). Normal for a loose moving noose knot (I could leave it tight to the eye and not worry as much about wear but would have less fly action). Same thing for my tippet. I need to constantly check the tippet for wear. Not taking the time for routine leader and knot checks can and does cause me to loose a fish occasionally.