:?: Trying to learn and understand more… I have read where a leader length should be 1 1/2 and 1.35 times the length of the fly rod you are using. I am using an 8’6" rod. I am fishing small stream for 1 to 5 pound trout.
A. When one speaks of leader do they mean the total length of leader and tippit?
B. If I had a 7 1/2’ leader on how long should the tippet be for casting dry flies for the above conditions?
I guess there are personal likes and dislikes but I was looking for a general basic rule to start with. Once I understand these basics I will have more questions on leaders and tippits.
Do a search on this site and you will learn a lot about leaders.
The leader has three sections the Butt section the middle or taper section and the tippet section. The butt section is tied to the fly line and stays there even when the other part of the leader is worn out. You tie your main leader to it using a blood knot. Then you have your main section of leader and it tapers to the tippet. The tippet is tied onto the leader with a surgeon’s knot. A normally tippet length is about a foot and a half of a given tippet materail.
For most of my fishing I use hand tied leaders that are 10 foot tapered to 4x. I then add tippet material to that depending on the size of fly I am going to use. I can also cut it back for streamer fishing and Bass bugs and such. I have learned over the years that I can get about 90 percent of my fishing covered with this one leader. Just by adding or subtracting from it. In truth it ends up being about 12 foot long most of the time but it is tied so that it will handle most of these changes. Ron
Red,
Good questions. This may not be a good answer but I’ll give it a shot:
A lot depends on what you’re fishing for, with and conditions but I’d say that in ‘general’, a 9’ leader (including tippet) will do okay. I’m not sure I agree with that 1-1/2 idea.
Now are there occassions when a longer leader(including tippet) is needed? Sure. Fishing dry flies on glassy water with spooky fish and small flies. In those cases you can just add a long section of tippet to the end of the existing tippet after making sure the sizes are compatable. Should not be more than an ‘x’ between them. Also, make sure the old tippet is cut down to a length that allows a smooth transition in the overall taper.
I usually buy or build leaders that are 7-1/2 feet or 9 feet in 4x or 5x. That includes the tippet. If I want to use a 6x or smaller I’ll add an additional section of 6x tippet. If I want to go even smaller I’ll add sections down to the tippet size I want with the final tippet being as long as I think I need.
If you buy a 9 foot ‘knotted’ leader, you can readily see where the tippet starts and its length. When it gets to where you think it should be replaced, cut off at the knot and add your own tippet as long as you think you need for the conditions.
Hope this helps and doesn’t add additional confusion.
Allan
Like Allen said Leaders are very personal. You will find what you like by using different one’s Knida like woman. Some like them skinny and some like them a little bigger I like them all. 
Ron
Glad my wife isn’t looking over my shoulder LOL Boy would I get a smak.
hmmmm… :? Where’s that blasted calculator at? :x
Gee, with only a 0.15 X Rod Length margin, that pretty much takes the guesswork out.
Leader length used is kinda a function of the length necessary to present the fly effectively and the length you are capable of casting properly. Leader length has little to do with rod length, other than some casters can present longer leaders more effectively on longer rods.
My answer to question A is Yes.
My answer to question B is :?
If there was a rule, and I knew it, I’d post it for you. Sorry.
Ron, I think you’re feeling better…Good 
What Bugsy said…
Thanks! Ron & Al. Things are clearer now. The word tippet has two meanings then. It is the end of the leader and it is another piece of material that is called tippet that is tied to the tippet of the leader with a surgeons knot. More questions then…
A. Do some people tie a fly to the end of their leader instead of using another tippet of lighter strength?
I would think that the leader would get shorter and shorter each time you tie on a new fly. The light just went on… That must be the reason you put on the extra tiippet material in lengths of 2 to 3 feet so as not to keep cutting the leader… Am I right?
I went to basic 101 and read J. Castwell’s article on leaders and tippets. It is explained in there and I wa partially right about cutting tippet for new flies but I was not aware of the windknots having to be cut off. My instructor “Buzz” is teaching me tight loops so that I don’t get those things. :roll:
I think that regardless of calculated leader lenghts, the idea is to catch fish, IE: fool the fish into taking your fly. In my opinion, length is determined by the water and type of fish we are after. In Oregon I use a 9 ft leader on the Sandy for Steelhead. In Michigan I use a 7-1/2 ft leader for Stream Smallies. On the high vegitation farm ponds I use a 5 o5 6 ft leader for Blue Gills and Bass. It is obvious a calculated rod/leader length formulas isn’t going to work for Bonefish on Florida tidal flats or my Blue Gill on a choked up farm pond. Match the leader to the conditions. Also, in my opinion, I encourage new fly fishers to use shorter leaders to assist in casting and letting the fly lay down without cussing up a storm and in most cases hooking a fish. I know I’m gonna take some heat, but then different strokes for different folks. Enjoy, Jonezee
I agree that the water dictates leader length. I use 12’ leaders on moving water often, but then again I use a 10’ rod. Stillwater I have used 30’.
Thanks Jonzee! What you said make sense to me. I will have to do some real fishing at the end of the month. I will start with a 7 1/2 leader with some
extra tippet being as I am a novice at this fly casting. If it works good I may never change in length.
Don’t know about rules for leader size. I usually stick to about my rod length from the knot on the fly line to the knot on the fly for 8-12 hook size. A foot longer for the smaller flies and a foot shorter for the heavier flies. The tippet size will cause the number to vary slightly but this gives one a starting point.
If you use this method and the fly doesn’t turn over (or stretch the tippet all the way out and then touch down) then the tippet should be trimmed about 6".
If the fly seems to be too heavy for the line and tends to jerk the line around during the cast, then trim the tippet about 6" (more if necessary).
Always avoid cutting your tapered section!
DISCLAIMER
These numbers are estimated and not a hard, fast rule. My input is from personal experiences
and preference and should not be construed as professional opinion. My family refuses to be held personally
responsible for any and all of my statements or actions.
Hope this helps someone besides me…
Hey Redhook,
Then you run into us old warmwater guys that generally just tie a
straight untapered 6 or 7 foot length of Trilene to their fly line and go
fishing (and catching).G Black tannic stained waters like we have here
in the south seem more forgiving of such things.G
By the way, you could do a lot worse for a teacher than Jerry. Tell him
ya wanta use a square rod though. Something with natural fibers.G
Warm regards, Jim
Above proves that everyone has there own ideas and none of them are wrong. In fact they are all right because they work for the people using them. 
So try some different one’s. Decide which are the one’s you like and you are home free… By the way you can lengthen any leader if you just add more butt section to them. You can make a 7 1/2 footer into a 15 footer just by adding more butt section to it. Ron
IMHO,
The leader is the leader and the tippet, the tippet. If you take a 9’ leader from its package and measure it, its 9’. Then you add some tippet bringing the total length of mono to 10’+…
Leader has no relation to rod length. If I am fishing a 6’ bamboo rod or a 10’ graphite rod on river ‘X’ I still want the same leader presented to the fish. The leader is to seperate oneself from the fish and the fish doesn’t care what rod you use. On gin clear waters you might want a 12’ leader on your rod and using the same rod for bass in dense weeds or murky water a 7.5’ leader may be just fine.
jed
Exactlly!
Thanks for the additional info. For Jim Hatch, Buzz is on his way to the Mich fish in. You brought up another question in your reply talking about just using mono line as the leader. What poundage line do you feel works good as an untapered leader? I have many different pound lines in my bass gear.
Question open to all with explanations. Thanks…
Hi Redhook,
I’m not trying to lead you astray on the leader question. In many
fisheries long fine leaders are pretty important. But in my dark tannic
stained warm waters, it is not as critical. As a boy, my dad taught me
to use a 6 to 8’ piece of mono. He usually used 10 to 15 pound test
depending on his quarry. I often use 4, 6 or 8 pound depending on
the flies I’m fishing. Maybe even up to 20 on some big flies.G
You can also tie knotted leaders of varying mono strengths. Pretty easy
to do and very affordable.G Warm regards, Jim
Redhook,
My approach to size of line is to use as small as possible so long as it:
- Can deliver the fly
- Be invisible to the fish
- Able to bring the fish in when you hook it.
Re:
- Heavier flies need heavier leaders to turn the fly over (meaning be able to get it to fully extend the leader and not fall right beside the tip of the line). Lighter leaders give a more gentle presentation which is good for trout. Bass on the other hand sometimes do well with the big splash. It serves as a wakeup call for their mealtime.
- Some locations that are more heavily fished or have clearer water or the fish you are fishing for are more fish of flight rather than a predator and will require a lighter leader. Some fish like bass are less leader shy and invisibility is less of an issue. I have done experiments where I lay a leader on clear water and watched its shadow along the stream bed’s bottom. As the shadow passed by the trout they scattered, so it does matter.
- Bringing in the fish is a personal/skill issue. I have seen people bring in 22" fat browns on 8x tippet. That is a skill that I do not have on a regular basis (as if I catch 22" browns regularly). It is important to use a leader that will allow you to bring in your fish before you exhaust it (if you are into C&R). The only qualifier I have is that when fishing weed beds or areas that have alot of places to get hung up I try and use a heavier leader/tippet to allow me to not loose so many flies.I’m cheap.
So now that I’ve expelled my verbal discharge here are some general guidelines that others can shoot down if they so desire.
For trout that generally run under 20" I suggest 6x or smaller
For Bass that generally run under 20" I suggest 4~5x or smaller.
For Ocean fishing I say nothing under 10lb test and that really must be looked at as a species specific situation.
Hope this helps more than confuses.
jed