Lead sinkers -- citations, please

I’m sorry, but I’m a journalist. Been so for 2 decades now.
Bob Boese does us all a disservice by not citing the sources of his information on lead sinker fishing tackle research. It’s one thing to write an FAOL article about fishing and tying and selecting flies, but when you venture into the realm of public policy it’s best to CYA. Your readers have a right to know!

“Simply stated, the impact of lead fishing tackle has not been documented or even well studied.”

Oh? I only had time to spend an hour on NEXIS today, and I found thousands of citations. A look into university research papers and dissertations uncovered dozens more recent studies about lead fishing tackle and bird mortality. They dissect the Tufts study and the USF&W analysis of it quite thoroughly. There’s a ‘straw man’ in the article, too – fish kills. The issue has never been fish kills, but BIRD kills from lead fishing tackle (and of course more importantly, by volume, lead shot from bird hunters). Boese does mention this eventually, to his credit.

Twiss, 1998:
In North America, the Common Loon is most commonly reported as dying from this cause, although at least 23 other species?are vulnerable. Bans on the use of lead fishing weights have been imposed in Yellowstone National Park, Redrocks Lake National Wildlife Refugee, and the National Elk Refugee in the USA. 22% of 202 Common Loons found dead in New England had ingested lead objects, principally sinkers and jigs. All of the loons that had ingested lead were adults representing 38% of the 115 adults examined. The percentage is even higher if birds collected only from fresh water are considered, i.e. 57% of 74 adult birds. These results show that lead toxicosis is a major mortality factor for Common Loons in Eastern North America, although the data probably represents a portion of the birds dying from this cause. Lead poisoned waterfowl commonly hide in dense cover as they become weaker, and are easily overlooked even by those searching for them.

And the author NEVER loses a hare’s ear nymph weighted with lead, and birds never eat it? Hmmm, maybe I need to pick up some fishing tips from him… (sorry, that was snarky).

Lead is a horrible, nasty poison. Ask anyone whose child was poisoned by lead-based paint, or absorbed lead in a mine. Does anyone on FAOL still crimp a lead sinker on their nymping rig with their teeth like my Dad used to? Oh my.

Suggested reading, and sources easily available (this is not Nexis stuff, though that was much more enlightening).

WBCI ?Get the Lead Out? webpage http://www.wisconsinbirds.org/leadpoisoning.htm

Wildlife Without Lead http://www.hawkwatch.org/lead_site/index.htm

Raptor Education Group, Inc. ?lead sinker exchange? webpage, with a list of nonlead tackle suppliers/manufacturers http://www.raptoreducationgroup.org/View_Special_Projects.cfm?title_bar=Lead%20Sinker%20Exchange&NewsID=11

Lead and Wildlife: A Bibliography of Selected Citations ? 2001 http://www.hawkwatch.org/lead_site/background/lead&wildlife_bibliography.pdf

Let?s Get the Lead Out! (Non-lead alternatives for fishing tackle) (Minnesota) http://www.moea.state.mn.us/reduce/sinkers.cfm

Loons and Lead Poisoning (Tufts School of Veterinary Medicine) http://www.tufts.edu/vet/loons/loon.html

Fish Lead Free (Canadian Wildlife Service) http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/fishing/index_e.cfm

Lead Poisoning (Michigan) http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/1,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26676--CI,00.html

The Use of Nontoxic Shot for Hunting in Washington http://www.wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/water/nontoxicshotfinal.htm

Lead Toxicosis in Michigan Loons from Ingestion of Lead Sinkers and Jigs: A Real Problem http://www.michiganloons.org/lead.htm

Fact Sheet: Lead Poisoning in Migratory Birds (National Wildlife Health Center, Madison) [u]http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/disease_information/other_diseases/lead_poisoning.jsp[/u]

Lead and Fishing ? Sinkers and Animals (U.S. EPA) http://www.epa.gov/owow/fish/animals.html

Lead Fishing Tackle (State Environmental Resource Center) http://www.serconline.org/lead/pkg_frameset.html

LoonWatch: Get the Lead Out!: http://www.northland.edu/Northland/Soei/Programs/LoonWatch/Programs/GetTheLeadOut.htm

Numbers of lead poisoned Bald Eagles by statehttp://biology.usgs.gov/s+t/imagefiles/b213f02.htm

Environment Canada - toxicity of lead shot and sinkers http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/publications/papers/88/chap3_e.cfm

Swans and lead poisoning (info from a die-off in 2000 in the Pacific Northwest) http://www.swansociety.org/issues/lead/0102lead.html

Trumpeter Swan society - more on lead poisoning of swanshttp://www.trumpeterswansociety.org/washington/lead.htm

Minnesota Public Radio - lead sinkers and poisoning (a still effective re-telling of this information) http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/200005/09_engerl_fish-m/index.shtml

Loon Preservation Committee (search their pages for info on loons and lead; other contaminants) http://www.loon.org/

[CENTER]Additional Literature
[/CENTER]
Clark, A. J. and A. M. Scheuhammer. 2003. Lead poisoning of upland foraging birds of prey in Canada. Ecotoxicology 12:23-30.

Sanborn, W. n.d. Lead Poisoning of North American Wildlife from lead shot and lead fishing tackle . Draft. HawkWatch International, 1800 South West Temple, Suite 226, Salt Lake City, UT 84115. (This 31-page review is the best single source of information and contains 125 references through 2002.)

Scheuhammer, A.M., S.L. Money, D.A. Kirk, and G. Donaldson. 2003. Lead fishing sinkers and jigs in Canada: Review of their use patterns and toxic impacts on wildlife. Occasional Paper 108. Canadian Wildlife Service, Ottawa.

Scheuhammer, A. M. and S. L. Norris. 1995.
A review of the environmental impacts of lead shotshell ammunition and lead fishing weights in Canada .
A review of the environmental impacts of lead shotshell ammunition and lead fishing weights in Canada. Occasional Paper 88. Canadian Wildlife Service, Ottawa.

Strom, S. M., K. Patnode, J. Langenberg, B. Bodenstein, T. Scheuhammer, and B. Beard. 2004. Determination of the extent and source of lead contamination in woodcock (Scolopax minor) from Wisconsin. Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources Final Report.[ol]
[li]USEPA 1994. Lead Fishing Sinkers: Response to Citizens’ Petition and Proposed Ban, Proposed Rule. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Washington, DC.[/li][li]Eisler, Ronald, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. “Lead Hazards to Fish, Wildlife, and Invertebrates: A Synoptic Review.” Biological Report 85(1.14), Contaminant Hazard Reviews, April 1988.[/li][li]New Hampshire Fish and Game Department, www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Fishing/get_the_lead_out.htm.[/li][li]U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. 1986. “Migratory bird hunting; availability of a final supplemental environmental impact statement (SEIS) on the use of lead shot for hunting migratory birds in United States.” Federal Register 51(124):23443-23447; also US Fish and Wildlife Service. 1987. “Migratory bird hunting; zones in which lead shot will be prohibited for the taking of waterfowl, coots and certain other species in the 1987-88 hunting season.” Federal Register 52(139):27352-27368.[/li][li]Sanborn, Wendy. “Lead Poisoning of North American Wildlife from Lead Shot and Lead Fishing Tackle.”[/li][li]Sidor, Inga F., Pokras, Mark A., Major, Andrew R., Poppenga, Robert H., Taylor, Kate M. Miconia, Rose M. “Mortality of Common Loons in New England, 1987 to 2000.” Journal of Wildlife Diseases, Vol. 39, No. 2, pp. 306-315.[/li][li]Scheuhammer, A.M., Money, S.L., Kirk, D.A., Donaldson, G. “Lead fishing sinkers and jigs in Canada: Review of their use patterns and toxic impacts on wildlife.” Occasional Paper Number 108, Canadian Wildlife Service, March 2003.[/li][li]Scheuhammer, A.M., Norris, S.L. “A review of environmental impacts of lead shotshell ammunition and lead fishing weights in Canada.” Occasional Paper Number 88, Canadian Wildlife Service, August 1995.[/li][li]Vermont Statutes, Sec. 1. 10 V.S.A. ? 4606(g) and Sec. 2. 10 V.S.A. ? 4614.[/li][li]Maine Statutes, Title 12: Conservation, Part 13: Inland Fisheries and Wildlife, Subpart 4: Fish and Wildlife, Subchapter 5: Unlawful Fishing Methods, ?12663: Unlawful sale of lead sinkers.[/li][li]State of New York Environmental Conservation Law, Section 11-0308.[/ol]Credibility comes from research into prior art, when you are discussing public policy.[/li]Talk about fishin’ all you want, and I won’t say a word.

DAN FINK

Dan,

Not being a journalist, but interested in the topic, I followed ALL of your links over a few hours, and read all I could find. After reading it, I’m wondering if YOU did.

I have to agree with Mr. Boese (as do the studies, numbers and ‘data’ in ALL the links you provided).

Many of your ‘cititaions’ were basic rephrasings of the same press release from someplace. Most were government or environmental group web sites. " Lead is bad. Someone did a ‘study’ and lead is killing birds. Don’t use lead tackle. Split shot looks like gravel. Birds eat it thinking it is gravel. Then the lead kills them. " Some were word for word.

A few were ‘unavailable’, maybe typing errors or the web sites moved. Almost all the frenzy over lead fishing tackle traced back to ONE seminal study (Mr. Scheuhammer…). It apparently got rehashed quite a bit, but all of the ‘data’ seems not to have changed (I can’t think of several different folks writing about the same data as ‘separate’ studies).

Let me say this again, clearly, by following YOUR citations, apparently only ONE actual ‘study’ was done, and even the authors stated that it was inconclusive and more study was required (the Scheuhammer studies, apparently this is his baby).

When I actually followed a ‘link’ that had some facts attached to it, most of it was about lead shot from shotshells. Many of the text alluded to the fact that it’s ‘possible’ for the poor birds to ingest sinkers and jigs, but I couldn’t find any place where they actually ‘found’ them in birds. They did find lots of lead shots from shotshells, though.

A lot of what I read was stated as fact, without any backup. A lot of supposition. They say that since there is a lot of folks fishing with lead, it must be killing birds…but no one mentioned finding a jig in a dead bird.

I found it odd that there were examinations where they stated plainly that they found a certain number of lead shot in a dead bird. Apparently they cut open LOTS of dead waterfowl, loons, and such. NONE of these, and they were what you directed us to, listed ONE instance in all of those dissections where there was ONE piece of fishing tackle in a bird.

I’m not saying it can’t happen, but with all this hype, seems someone could have found a picture of an ingested jig head to post, just for the visual impact of it.

Once I got into some of the numbers, though, I realized how ridiculous (my words here, I find it absolutely ludicrous) all this really is. Are we talking MILLIONS of dead birds from lead fishing tackle? Thousands? Hundreds? Nope. Not ONE table or list or study showed it. Lead deaths, mostly from shot shells, sure. But not millions. Not even thousands. Some states had a few hundred spread over a few DECADES. One state, Michigan, had deaths listed by EACH DEAD BIRD over the last few years (can’t be accurate, but hey, they are trying…)

What did they find?

ONE dead bird from ‘lead poisoning’ in one state over a year’s time, or three or four (if the ‘table’ on the site you directed me to is to be believed) forty so over the course of the several years study, less than a third of the overall ‘causes’ studied…with all these TONS of lead, you’d think that more than a FEW birds would be killed…and again, these were LEAD BIRDSHOT DEATHS, no ‘table’ or ‘study’ listed any ‘facts’ about finding such and such a sinker/jig in X number of birds.

One site listed all kinds of tables with bird by bird docmentation…until they put up a ‘table’ about fishing tackel. THEN it was all this ‘could’ happen ,and that ‘could’ happen…but nothing about it actually happening.

While it may be sad that even one bird dies from lead poisoning, I’m not ready to jump on this bandwagon without some FACTS, and I’m certainly not ready to interrupt or derail a multimillion dollar industry just for the sake of a few dead birds.

One study, especially one where the primary author states that the results were inconclusive and that it requitres further study, is not enough to ‘ban’ lead fishing tackle.

I’m not accusing anyone of an agenda here, but I do know that most of the folks involved with this have no clue about actual fishing tackle. Almost all of these anti lead tackle press releases specifically mention jigs. Jigs almost always have a hook attached to them, and I’d think that the hook would be MUCH more dangerous to the bird than the lead in the head, but that’s just me.

You may be a journalist, but Mr. Boese apparently did more homework than you gave him credit for.

Next time you try to overwhelm us with data, be prepared for the guy who will actually READ it all.

Buddy

I still crimp lead sinkers with my teeth. Been doing it since I was a little kid. I am 53 years old and have never suffered any ill affects from doing
it.

Rocky

I haven’t followed this topic closely but did read Buddy’s post…and I say …that’s our Buddy!! Thanks

We duck hunters lost the lead battle long ago…and some things occur to me …

Are leaded fishing lures/ flies going to end up copper coated?
Will lead be replaced by tungsten…expensive…

Buddy your point about not finding jigs etc. in ducks seems well taken…and it is even easier than you said …many of the ducks examined were by x-ray…probably more accurate than dissection.

Buddy, I don’t understand your response. The first link I clicked on was:

http://www.michiganloons.org/lead.htm

It documents 42 cases of lead poisoning in birds in the data table at the end of the article.
20 from jigs including one with hooks
6 from sinkers
5 pieces of lead including 2 with hooks
4 from lures
3 from split shot including 3 with monofilament

Lead is a poison to people and birds.

In Great Britian there was a die-off of swans that was blamed on lead from fishing tackle. After several years of a ban on fishing tackle that contains lead, the number of swans started to recover.

Please don’t lead people astray by telling them that tossing a known poison into our rivers and streams does not have dire consequences. It does!

Ed

I have to wonder how closely allied the anti-lead agenda is to the anti-gun agenda and how closely groups like PETA are alied with both of these agendas?

Next thing you know, someone will suggest renaming fist to some cute fuzzy name to make it less likely that people will want to catch and eat them.

You want to find something that kills off wildlife? habitat loss. What wildlife lost its home due to the local Wal-Mart Super Center parking lot or the row of half million dollar homes in your local suburb (oops I guess those are now three hundred thousand dollar homes now).

Jeff

That is soooo, true! But they’ll blame it on the lead because it’s easy.

300K? It’s probably a whole lot less! lol.

Rocky
I am also 53 and have been crimping shot with my teeth my whole life… And I cast lead head jigs by the hundreds of pounds (but I use decent ventilation… I ain’t stupid!)
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me
And it hasn’t affected me…
art :wink:

mEee eeTher! Uh…what were we talking about? lol.

The moment you identified yourself as a journalist was the moment my eyes rolled to the back of my head.

ED,

When I ‘clicked’ on that link in the first post, I got a ‘web site unavailable’ (I’m on AOL, happens sometimes) message. I was able to see it from your link.

I did get to that particular ‘table’ through a different route, but without the breakdown below it of ‘specific’ causes.

Still. 34-38 Loons in 13 years? We are not talking serious decimation of a population here. It’s still significantly less than the other listed causes of mortality.

Also, how do you get a lead ‘jig’ without a hook? How could they tell it was a jig? I’m just sayin’…what do they mean by ‘lures’? No data, but since they have a separate category for jigs, they must mean some other kind of lure…were these lead too? Again, no data…not too likely though…few ‘lures’ that aren’t jigs are made from lead.

Nothing here suggests that Loons are in any reasonably significant danger from fly fishermen. Only three with ‘split shot’ in 13 years (can’t tell what kind of shot-could have been one of us?), none mentioned with a lead weighted fly. Only a few of them are killed by ANY fishing activity.

I get that lead is bad in the abstract. So is drinking alcohol, smoking, drug ingestion, and not washing your hands properly. But in reality how much harm is lead in fishing really doing? From the ‘study’, not too much. Less than many other things in this instance, INCLUDING drowning, but no one is talking about banning water…

I even understand the ban on lead shotgun pellets. One shotgun shell puts an ounce or so of lead into the environment. I don’t ‘lose’ an ounce of lead ‘split shot’ fly fishing in a YEAR.

I’m just not in agreement that lead in flies, and fishing gear in general, needs to be legally banned. The data provided is insignificant and inconclusive. Banning something is a pretty drastic measure for so little observed effect and with so little data.

We do harm all the time. Our activities often adversely effect the creatures and environment around us. When there is evidence that a particular activity is the root cause of significant harm then it should be looked at, the impact of legislation versus no legislation evaluated and debated, and then the political process can take the proper perceived action.

THIS issue does not rise to that level. What we have here is a few dead birds, the hype of ‘it could happen’, a lot of conjecture, and unproved theories. Another band wagon for folks without the desire to get the truth first to jump onto.

Study it properly. Find out if it’s happening, where it’s happening, and how it’s happening. Get some numbers that aren’t decades old. Prove it’s a significant problem, and then we can talk again.

Until then, I’ll use lead split shot on my leaders, lead wire in my flies, and lead dumbbell eyes where I need them. I’m probably safe, as Arizona still has a little of the American spirit left, and they don’t do so many kneejerk laws…worried a bit about Colorado, though…

And, for those of us that don’t want to see lead for our fishing uses banned, remember that this is a political issue, and your voice counts. Think about things like this when you vote, and speak out when you hear theories stated as facts.

Buddy

First of all you make a number of assumptions and conclusions in your statement above as well as in your post. They are wreckless assumptions and ignore the huge body of evidence and scientific studies that demonstrate that people who fish with lead products are part of the cause of the destruction of the environment that makes our fishing pursuits possible.

Why is the data in this article insignificant and inconclusive. It clearly states that of the dead loons that were examined 42 out of 180 were killed by lead. That means 23%of the dead loons in that Michigan study were killed by lead. It also states that 41 out of the 180 were killed by lead related to fishing.

Lets move on. This is the second of the sources listed that I checked out from:
http://www.hawkwatch.org/publications/Manuscripts/Lead_Poisoning_Paper1.pdf

This is anything BUT inconclusive. This is anything BUT insignificant.
This is anything BUT “little effect”

"Lead Exposure from Fishing Tackle
Lead poisoning due to fishing tackle has been documented in 25 species of water birds and in sensitive species including Common Loons (Gavia immer), Trumpeter Swans, Mississippi Sandhill Cranes (Grus canadensis), and Bald Eagles (see Table 6). In New England, poisoning from lead weights and jigs is the greatest source of loon mortality, accounting for 50% of adult deaths (Pokras and Chafel 1992). Likewise, in Canada, 30% of adult loon mortality is due to lead poisoning resulting from sinker ingestion (Scheuhammer and Norris 1996). Ensor et al. (1992) found that 17% of adult loon deaths in Minnesota could be traced to lead poisoning from fishing tackle. Lead poisoning, sometimes caused by sinkers, is also a significant mortality factor for the Trumpeter Swan (Blus 1994).
Lead split shot comprises 50% of the sinker market in the United States (USEPA 1994). These tiny, round BBs can be difficult to handle and anglers often lose several sinkers for each one successfully attached to the line. Further, sinkers are lost when anglers cast or break their lines to free them from submerged snags. With more than 2,700 tons of lead sinkers sold in the U.S. annually, and an additional 400-550 tons sold in Canada, accidental sinker loss results in a substantial amount of lead deposition in wetland environments (USEPA 1994, Scheuhammer and Norris 1995). There, it is available to foraging wildlife that may mistake it for grain, grit, insects, or fish.
Anglers lose lead sinkers, jigs, and lead-weighted flies in fish themselves. Hooked fish can free themselves by breaking a line or pulling tackle loose. Such fish often carry tackle in their mouths or digestive tracts. Fish are not subject to ?dietary? lead poisoning (Hodson et al. 1978) and lead tackle typically dissolves. However, predators that take fish containing tackle can ingest metallic lead, becoming susceptible to secondary lead poisoning. Secondary lead poisoning due to fishing tackle has been documented in Bald Eagles, Common Loons, Common Mergansers (Mergus merganser), and Red-breasted Mergansers (Mergus serrator) (USFWS 1994). It is highly likely that Osprey (Pandion haliaetus), which feed exclusively on fish, are regularly exposed to lead as well.

If you increase the mortality by 23% of a bird such as a loon by any additional cause you will have a declining population. You can not think that it is only 41 loons. It is reasonable to extrapole these percentages to include all of the dead loons that are not recovered. That is how wildlife research becomes relevant. Not just the bodies found, but also to those bodies not found.

Who says the research is inconlclusive? Lead has been found to be a significant cause of loon death accross their range by numerous studies.

You also say
“Study it properly. Find out if it’s happening, where it’s happening, and how it’s happening. Get some numbers that aren’t decades old. Prove it’s a significant problem, and then we can talk again.”

I have studied it!!! When I held a position as an Aquatic Resource Educator, I read the original research, from Tufts University to Michigan and Minnesota studies. The data in the Michigan study included data from 1987 through 2001. Are you suggesting that long term studies are not valid? Are you suggesting that we can’t learn a lesson from data over these years?

The British experience. Swans on the Thames River made a dramatic come-back after lead in fishing tackle was banned. The swan numbers were spiraling downwards prior to the ban.

The where, how and what has been laid out for you. Now it is up to you to responsibly recycle the lead in your tackle box go No Lead Fishing. Orvis doesn’t sell lead as a policy. I don’t use lead as a matter of conscience and ethic. I hope you will join me.

Ed

Whenever data are presented, one must ask who funded the research and if there was an agenda by either the researcher or the funding organization.

I’m not suggesting that any of this research was skewed or subject to bias but one does need to follow the money when discussing research data. Just because the research was conducted by a university does not necessarily make it valid or unbiased.

The research presented here may well be accurate and unbiased, I don’t know and I’m not going to take the time to find out. It’s not for a lack of caring, it’s a lack of time.

All I am saying is that anytime data are presented to support a theory or hypothesis, one must be aware that the group who funded the research or the researcher him/herself may have an agenda.

For example, would you think research funded by PETA would show sport fishing in a favorable light?

Jeff

One thing seems constant here no matter who is doing the talking. Lead is bad stuff. There seems to be many alternatives for lead. To be on the safe side I think I will not use lead. I don’t use much weight anyway when I fish so whatever the cost of the substitute is I doubt it will keep me from making my mortgage payment. This way I know that I am not contributing to the problem; real or imagined.

What action levels are being used to determine whether the fowl has been lead poisoned?

This is devolving into something similar to the “an indicator is a bobber” debate.

The only resolution is for everybody to go dry-fly only.

ED,

You are absolutely correct that in the Michigan study, 30+ (I think it says 34, you think it’s 40+, whatever) Loons died from fishing lead in 13 or 14 YEARS. That’s less than, at 48 of them even, 4 a year.

By the way, it’s not a percentage of the total population that’s being discussed here, it’s a percentage of the birds that died. Many of these studies were multi year events and found lead fishing related deaths in relatively few birds considering overall mortality. That Michigan study was pretty easy to understand (nice visible numbers, with lists that made some kind of sense), and if they are close to what really happening out there in regard to mortality levels, it’s obviously not a significant issue.

That link you posted to the Hawkwatch site had some tables attached to it. I read the whole thing. Looked at all the tables. Lots of ‘hard’ numbers regarding lead shotshell pellets with numbers of dead birds, etc…but, when you get to the ‘table’ on fishing lead, it’s just ‘species poisoned by lead fishing tackle’…a ‘list’ of the birds that may be vulnerable, but no ‘numbers’ about them. AND, it refers to the Scheuhammer study as it’s base, and the other studies that it also lists were rehashes of the Scheuhammer study.

Now, I read Mr. Scheuhammer’s stuff. He is the man that did the rresearch and wrote that one study that everyone points to. And HE says that HIS results were inconclusive and that more study was required. I’ll assume that he meant someone should collect more data, not just rehash his.

AND, for anyone who really starts to look closely at this stuff, the ‘real’ data, not someone playing around with percentages without using the base numbers (you shoot one person, do a study of that one death, and you can say that 100% of the people studied died from gunshot wounds…), then you can really see that this is all much ado about nothing much.

Small quantities of birds are dying from lead. Most of those are dying from lead shotgun shell pellets. A very few are dying because they inadvertantly consumed lead from fishing tackle. The amount that die for this reason are fewer than the deaths from other causes, including drowning.

Another thing that I find suspiciously lacking is the ‘totals’ about populations versus deaths here. Seems if this was really big problem, someone would be shoutling from the roof tops that X percentage of the TOTAL population of Loons/Ducks/(whichever is the birdie du jour), is ‘dying because of lead in fishing tackle’. No one is doing that. Everyone of these studies, and most of the sites that address them, talk only about the precentages of studied deaths. They want YOU to assume they mean the whole population, but they don’t actually ‘say’ that.

I’ll invite anyone to read the ‘studies’ and look at the NUMBERS, not read the ‘hype’, and then make their own decisions.

But consider what might be at stake here. Education and enlightening anglers to the dangers of lead isn’t what is desired here. The folks pushing this want to ‘bann’ the use of, and even the posession of, lead in fishing tackle. Not just in areas where it ‘may’ be a problem, but everywhere.

Easy, you say. I can switch to lead substitutes easy enough. But even if lead in fishing tackle is ‘bad’ from what I read it’s not fly fishermen who are the culprits. NOTHING even suggested that lead weighted flies, or fly fishing split shot was involved in ANY deaths.

But this seems to show up here…everyone seems to want fly fishermen to just stop using lead. Why? No one can point to any significant number of dead animals that this use causes.

I wonder if maybe somone is trying to profit from ‘lead substitute’ stuff…it’s pretty clear that of the few birds killed from fishing lead, most were done in by jig or bait fishermen. It’s only possible that one or two deaths over decades might maybe be related to fly fishing. All of us could stop using lead tommorrow, and it wouldn’t do much in real ‘dead bird’ terms.

There are other considerations, though.

There are thousands of fishermen across the country that make a bit of money, some their whole income, manufacturing smaller quantities of lead based lures. Most of these are home based businesses. The ‘big’ manufacturers, and those that get things made in other countries, will easily adapt. They’ll but the stuf fto produce non lead lures, pass the price on to the fishermen, and not feel too much of a bite. But the ‘little guy’ who is working on the American Dream in his own little tackle making operation will be shut down by such a bann. Few, if any, of th4se guys are selling to the fly fishing market, but they are well represented in the bass fishing and walleye fishing crowd.

I beleive that destroying these businesses, derailing the commerce that they engender, and depriving the effected anglers of choices just for the sake of what, as the tables show, is just a VERY FEW effected animals, is bad public policy.

I could go on, but I’m getting tired.

Suffice it to say that I stand by my ‘inconclusive’ statement. It does need LOTS more data, as related to fishing gear. If it’s such a big deal, then do more studies and PROVE it with the facts, not just the hype.

Buddy

This is what struck me …and Buddy said it…

“By the way, it’s not a percentage of the total population that’s being discussed here, it’s a percentage of the birds that died.”

And Ed you said this…

“If you kill 23% of a bird such as a loon by any additional cause you will have a declining population. You can not think that it is only 41 loons. It is reasonable to extrapole these percentages to include all of the dead loons that are not recovered. That is how wildlife research becomes relevant. Not just the bodies found, but also to those bodies not found.”…trying not to take this out of context…

I’m sorry I see that as a stretch…

23% of 41 dead birds doesn’t come close to relating to 23% of a total population

BTW does anyone know how coots migrate:p.

First of all, 41 out of the 180 were killed by lead related to fishing.

What I was trying to say is that if you increase the percentage of those birds that are dying by 23% that is very significant. I did not mean to say that 23% of the whole population of birds will die from lead. However if you increase the mortality by 23% ACCROSS THE ENTIRE POPULATION by continuing to fish with lead, the results are significant and is a disaster in the making for the wildlife population of loons.

Ed

I usually avoid discussions like this because I do not have the time or the motivation to read through that many listed websites and studies about the topic right now.

That being said, after reading through the posts here I no longer feel nearly as bad about using lead when fishing. With the degree of urgency this issue seems to have on the anti-lead side, it seems like there would be studies left and right about the impact of lead on the population of birds. If there is such a clear pattern related to lead and bird populations, then they are doing a very very poor job of showing it.

Based on the numbers I’m seeing 41 dead birds across an entire state isn’t enough to alter my approach.

Also, maybe this is answered in the listed citations, but did the dead birds found with lead in their stomachs receive toxicology reports to be sure lead poisoning was the cause of death?

ps. the jigs without hooks part throws that whole study in question in my opinion. that seems like a unique enough situation that anyone with some fishing knowledge would include an explanation.