This is embarrassing. The only reason I even openly admit to doing something so air-headed is the slight hope that my mistake will someday help others by preventing them from doing the same thing. I finished re-finishing my first rod. I planned on using it for a trip up to New York. It was down to the wire, really down to the wire (the wraps show it, trust me).
The last thing I had to do was glue on the reel seat/grip, which I did Monday morning before I left. I got to the stream on Tuesday and put the rod together, and man did it look nice. I was so pumped. I throw the reel on, and what did I notice? In my haste, I forgot to line up the reel seat with the guides. I even though about the need to do this days before I ended up doing it. It looked ridiculous. I couldn’t have planned a better 90 degree angle that was formed by the direction of the guides and the reel seat. It was more or less un-fishable. Bummer.
With that said, anyone know if boiling will break down gorilla glue, because that?s about the only solution I see to this problem at this point in time.
Sorry to hear of your troubles. Unfortunately, I had to replace the reel seat on a friends rod. It was assembled using Gorilla Glue. After a call to the manufacturers of the glue, I found out that the only way to break the bond was to cut it away.
Luckily, I am a cabinet maker with a shop full of sharp tools and made quick work of the reel seat, sanding it down to the blank. A new reel seat was glued back in place (properly lined up with the guides) using epoxy (just in case).
The reel seat was one I actually picked up on ebay so I’m not really sure what kind it is. Its just a standard looking, uplocking, reel seat. It was all put together when I got it. The wooden insert is pinned at the top (the top that is currently settled into the cork). The area for the top of the reel, along with the groove in the wooden insert for the reel, are both off to the side. Looks like I’m going to have to get a little creative with this one. No worries though, I’m kind of laughing about it by now.
Next time use Rod Bond instead of the Gorilla glue - you will be better off the next time you 90 degree the seat. However, in this case you might want to consider moving all the guides and the top instead.
Hmm. I was trying to think of a way for you to save at least a portion of your reelseat hardware, but sorry to say, I don’t think that’s gonna work. Since you can’t use the “boiling” method, I’d suggest using a dremel cutoff wheel, and make a shallow cut down the length of the reelseat. Which one of your rods was this? And what type of reelseat would you like for it (what sort of wood for the spacer, etc…)?
It was just a standard metal seat with a rosewood insert. Here is what I was thinking… Try and take a cut off wheel and make a new foot space for the top of the reel, then sand down and re-groove the insert. I think that I’ll be able to create a fairly smooth transition between the hardware and the insert because the current groove is not that deep. Honestly the tougest part is going to be cutting the metal, but I think i’ll be able to pull it off. The rod is one of my Monty’s. I think its a rapidan since the only letters I can make out are D followed by /. A is the only letter that goes this way (/) besides M, and the only Monty model that has a D followed by and A or M is the Rapidan. It was really intended to be my practice rod. It was in the worst condition and I just wanted to go through the process once before I set off on some of the others. Rod Bond it is next time!
That would do it if you are not aligned to the spline or if it does not make any difference. On the rods I have done, I generally put the reel seat on first, though.
Bear, I think your right. You mean the rods spine, not spline, right? (splines are the pieces that are glued together to make up the rod blank) Just moving the guides so they are in line with the reelseat would be MUCH easier if it is still on the spine of the rod, but since you said the reelseat is at 90degrees to the guides, I’d say that’s probably not likely.
I hate to say this … the spine doesn’t matter. I know people will argue this point and so be it.
I build custom G Loomis rods for a living and would spine them if it made a difference.
The amount of torque put upon a rod when casting or fighting a fish is hundreds of times greater than the torque caused by spine alignment. Besides, rod blanks have two spines - major and minor, not to mention natural curvature. Now what are you going to do? :shock:
Perhaps determine the PPOP [= Principal Planar Osillation Plane] of the rod blank so the reel seat and guides could be oriented accordingly…just as is done with golf club shafts. :roll:
I couldn’t agree more Tampa Jim. I have been told by several major rod manufacturers that their technology is such that finding spine is irrelevant, unless it is a fiberglass rod, and even then it is significantly better than it used to be. If I understand it correctly this is a Rapidan (possibly) and finding the “spine” on a bamboo rod could be a real hard task.
There are strong arguements both ways on finding a spine on a rod of any sort, I have been told by prime manufacturers that spine “may” be crucial on a salt water rod but then again it may not make a differenc in the performance of the rod as well.
Move the guides! If the spine makes a difference on your blank (and it doesn’t seem to on most), I’d say it would only be noticeable on the tip section(s), and you aren’t messing with that end. You could redo the guides on the butt and not notice any change in casting (especially true on three or four piece rods). Mass produced rods used to have a much more apparent “spine” when they weren’t so hi-tech in design and manufacture. Hand layed up rods from top makers were always straighter and exhibited less spine than the average factory rod. The concept of spining rods is a much bigger deal with fiberglass and bamboo, where the butt sections are relatively large in diameter (compared to graphite), much more flexible, and there might be a bigger difference between strips (bamboo).
-CC
Sorry guys I’m not a rod maker but…I think I’m hearing just move the guides on the butt section…not “all” like TampsJim…[sorry Jim] suggests…is that correct…and if not why won’t it work to just do the butt???
BTW…I know a little about golf shafts and it seems to me there are a lot of similarities…I’ll bet that if a rod is oriented properly on the proper oscillation plane [determined with an oscilloscope + and is different than just the spine ]…good casters would be saying …"This one really feels sweet and it seems to put the fly where I want it "…trouble is it’s a matter of economics and of course no company is going to admit there is a better way…they’re perfect.
Sorry … I build almost exclusively one piece rods. You only should move the lower section. There would be no advantage to moving anything else.
BTW, it takes all of 30 seconds to “spine” a rod. Time is not an issue, there is no advantage. “Spining” a rod is the ultimate wive’s tail in rod building.
There in is the rub …the spine is not the same…and that used to be the wives tale for golf shafts.
My first graphite golf shafts were G Lommiss[spl]…but they got out of the business …so maybe they aren’t the same…but physics is physics…but also perfection can be the enemy of good…so…
One piece, two piece, three piece … it doesn’t matter - aligning a rod according to the “spine” is meaningless and contrary to proper building methodology. You should be aligning your rod on the natural curvature of the blank - NOT the spine.
I build multi-piece rods and actually prefer them myself - easier portability. Unfortunately, the bulk of my clientele believe the #1 wive’s tail for consumers - that one piece rods are superior to multi-piece. That was the reason for my original statement being phrased the way it was.
Here’s the good news … it is your rod, build it the way you want.
A picture for us to look at would be easier for us to talk about it. Like, uh…are you casting right handed? Are the butt section guides off to the right or left? Some right handed people build the first one or two stripper guides offset to the left anyway, thinking it’s better. If offset to the left just align the tip section with the reel seat and go fish. I doubt you will be able to notice the difference.
You might could tape electrical tape to the bottom of the reel footprint up onto the footprint from the bottom and trim it so that it doesn’t show. Then move it around to where you want it…then do a figure 8 tyrap to tie down the footprint where you want it…then slide the hood up and screw it tight. I guess this would only work on those reel seats that are completely round and do not have a cut out. Seems to me like it would work. Unless looks means that much.
Then again there is always the saw…
Gemrod
“tight lines and wet nuts…uh, I mean wet nets”
geeze if I could only type
You know, cross creek has a point. Unless there’s a noticable “set” in the butt section, it really shouldn’t make that much difference if you move the guides. If you ever do need to find the spine, though, it can certainly be done (heck, if I can do it, ANYONE can), it’s just a bit tricky (you’ve got to “gently” bend the rod on each SPLINE until you find the one with the most give- that’s where the SPINE is). Hope we’ve helped. And let us know when you’ve caught a fish on that thing!
Regards,
Joe Martin
Salem, OR
P.S. I ended up with a Rapidian out of my lot of rods as well, and I’m planning on using it this winter as my first steelhead rod.
