Rather than highjack the thread about large arbor reels let me ask …
What is the difference between buying a regular arbor reel and filling it with backing…
or buying a large arbor and being able to add less backing???
weight???..suspect the differences would cancel?
Yes, if you get into the backing… pickup would change as you get deeper into the backing but in the large arbor you wouldn’t even be able to get to that backing.
I guess I’m dumb and just don’t understand the physics :roll:
I think the whole deal is in the rate of line retrieval, the large arbor picking up the line quicker. If a person never gets a fish on the reel then the type of reel does not matter.
Gardenfish…
"“Give me ambiguity or give me something else”
I’m thinking maybe that’s where we are…it seems to me the rates of pickup are the same…by filling the spool with backing aren’t we just creating a large arbor???
Two reels, one of large arbor and one of small arbor, of equal diameter and spool width will have the same retrieval rate (assuming same line), except small arbor reel will hold more backing.
Two reels of equal diameter, wider larger arbor model and narrower small arbor, the wide arbor will maintain a higher retrieve rate as more line is off the reel. You will also get more consistant drag pressure.
By going to a large diameter, wider reel, you can make a larger arbor and retain the same backing capacity as a narrower small arbor reel.
Sometimes you just don’t need that extra backing that you may get with a small arbor. I have too reels each 4.5" in diameter. One is a large arbor model and the other is a small arbor. The large arbor is wider. Both hold 450 yards of backing. If I get 3 or 4 hundred yards into the backing, I’d rather be cranking it from the large arbor reel where the diameter of the line on the reel well remain larger. Fewer cranks need. Take the dimensions of the larger arbor and apply to a small arbor reel and it would hold a lot more backing that I don’t need - and don’t wan’t to spend money for which is a factor in my big game reels where I us gel spun backing which is expensive.
Also, as you wind line on the spool, it creates pressure on the spool wall. The deeper the line, the more the pressure. Making larger diameter, wider spool, for a given amount of line, the depth of line on the spool will be less and the resulting pressure thus less. A reel designer can take advantage of this and make the spool walls thinner and thus the spool lighter.
ducksterman, there is no point if one reel simply holds less backing than the other. In order to enjoy all the benefits of a “true” large arbor reel, the outside diameter of the spool must be significantly larger.
For example, compare the Orvis Battenkill Bar Stock III reel to the Orvis Battenkill large Arbor III reel. Both reels are designed to hold 5-6 wt. lines, yet the Battenkill Bar Stock reel has a standard-sized spool that only measures 3" in diameter, which is typical of a trout-sized reel. The Battenkill Large Arbor III reel, in contrast, has a spool with an outside diameter of 3 3/4" – it is that increase in the outside diameter of the spool that provides the cited advantage in line retrieval rates.
– Mike
I was about to reply to tailingloop with this…
I think I follow you but perhaps we should just talk about the same diameter reels?
Then Hairstacker came on and…I think he confirms …in thinking of large arbor etc. I guess I’ve just assumed comparing same diameter reels…probably too simplistic…
Given two reels of same diameter, one wider than the other, the wider one will have some advantages.
If you pull X amount of line off of both reels, the depth of the line , D , on the spool with respect to the axis of rotation (center of the spindle) will decrease faster on the narrower reel. As this distance D decreases, it takes more pressure to pull line against the drag (even though you didn’t change the drag setting on the reel). So, for instance, if you take 100 feet of line off of both reels, the increase in force required to pull line against the drag will be higher on the narrow reel. D will not decrease as much on the wide reel, so the force required to pull line against the drag will remain closer to the force required when all the line was on the reel - thus the drag will remain more consistant as line goes out compared to the narrow reel. Also, if one rotation of the spool on the narrow reel will take up less line than on the wide reel.
Now I haven’t even discussed the arbor size yet - because arbor size really doesn’t factor into retreive rate or drag consistancy. If you increase arbor size , you do reduce backing capacity. But often this capacity is not needed. By incorporating a larger arbor you can also reduce the weight of the reel, though only some designers do this.
When most people talk about ‘true’ large arbor reels, they are referring to larger diameter, wider reels as compared to reels traditionally used for a particular line weight as in the example Hairstacker gave. These reels incorporate a larger arbor to save weight and eliminate the need to spool up with backing that will never be used.
When I shop for a reel, I look at diameter, width, backing capacity and cost. Sometimes I end up with a large arbor and sometimes a small arbor reel. More often than not, it is a large arbor reels because I prefer the benefits of large diameter, wide spool reel and most such reels today have large arbors.
Tailingloop’s first sentence answers the question.
LA reels are just another option, not an answer.
To get the max benefit from LA reels, you would need to choose the largest model that balances on your rod. But how many of us want to mount a saucer-sized reel on our 5wt?
I’m sure a Large arbor fills a need for some anglers. For me, I don’t want a clunky looking over size reel on my rod. If I needed faster retrieval I’d buy a multiplier.
[quote=“tailingloop”]
Sometimes you just don’t need that extra backing that you may get with a small arbor. I have too reels each 4.5" in diameter. One is a large arbor model and the other is a small arbor. The large arbor is wider. Both hold 450 yards of backing. [b]If I get 3 or 4 hundred yards into the backing, I’d rather be cranking it from the large arbor reel where the diameter of the line on the reel well remain larger. Fewer cranks need.[/b] Take the dimensions of the larger arbor and apply to a small arbor reel and it would hold a lot more backing that I don’t need - and don’t wan’t to spend money for which is a factor in my big game reels where I us gel spun backing which is expensive.
Man you get that far into backing, I would be saying goodbye to line and fish. Past the point of return 
I like the TRADITIONAL on my Bamboo and glass for the above note, they LOOK better. But I have several LA’s (and mids) for my use all the time rods. Even have a LA I on my 2wt. Comes in real handy when that fish decides to swim toward you.
The Orvis LA hold very little backing compared to others (around 50yrds) but the idea of bringing in almost a foot of line each turn is sweet.
As far as the ORVIS mid arbor, they are a little heavier than the LA right out of the box, add more backing and then the line, they are definitly heavier than an LA. This doesn’t really matter to me in most cases cause I use them on a 6wt. But, I stll love tha LA.
My BBS V is a big traditional, but very light. Granted I put 100’s of yrds of backing on it, I got what figures out to be a light LA, but have more than 50yrds of backing to play with for those STEELIES.
I just take about 10-15 feet of the end of my actual fly line and cut it off. This allows you to add another 30-40 yards of backing on the Battenkill LA II. So with my 4 weight I have about 115 yards backing and with my 5 weight spool I have about 85-90 yards of backing. I Havent tried the gel spun yet but that will increase it at least 25%.
I like the look of the reel and the fact that I can pick up line fast. I’ve been into the backing but not far into it. I couldn’t imagine having over 100 yards of backing out with a trout anyhow Unless you are fishing Steelhead, and other larger gamefish in a lake or something. I mean then you need bigger gear with larger Backing capacity but for fishing Trout in streams and rivers I think 100 yards is plenty. The resistance just from the water would be enough to snap you off with your leader and tippet anyhow.
Some “Large Arbor” reels don’t do squat for you.
I have a 4wt rod that I use on small streams a lot. But the same streams have a lot of brush moving from one spot to another spot you need to reel in your excess line or you will hang it up on every branch, dead fall and bush you come near. So inspite of not casting very that far you find yourself pull out and reeling in line a lot. So I convinced myself that I needed a larger arbor reel to be able to reel in the line quicker. It sounds good, right. That is where my thinking ended.
One day I came across an inexpensive “Larger Arbor” reel. When I filled the reel with backing and line I realized that my linear thinking was incomplete.
The Arbor of the reel was indeed larger. The outside diameter of the reel was only marginally bigger. The width of the reel was only marginally bigger.
The end result was that I could not put just a very few yards of backing on the reel as the fly line filled the reel. But hey it is for a small stream. You don’t need backing. since the width and the outside diameter of this “Large arbor” reel are essential the same as my old reel and the unused backing that filled the old reel I have two reels that have about the same diameter and mechanical advantage at where the fly line is at.
To say it another way:
My old reel with lots of backing has the same diameter where the fly line starts to wind on as the new “Large Arbor” reel without any backing. Since the width of the reel and the outside diameter of the two reels are similar I have gained nothing in being able to wind line on quicker.
Thus if you want to pickup line faster you need a reel that has a much larger outside diameter and much larger width than the standard reel you are using. The arbor diameter is not that important. You can always add more or less backing so that the line and backing fills the reel. The determining fact for the arbor size is how much backing do you think you need to have to fight the fish you think you will be handling with the reel.
Do you think it is going to look silly when I put a Larger Arbor Reel intended for 12 wt rod on my 7ft. 4wt rod? :lol:
Scruffy Fly,
I think some folks are too concerned about appearances, but that is their choice.
I may occasionally be seen with a 4" diameter reel that I normally use on 9-10 wt rods on a 5wt when I wan’t cranking speed - primarily for some lake fishing situations where I more often encounter trout that will rip off 50 yards of backing. Doesn’t look “right”, but it works well.
I have a 4.5 inch diameter reel. If I put in on a 12 rod and on a 6wt (w fighting butt) and look at them from 100 feet away - they look about the same.
If I put that reel on my 7ft rod, I might only need one or two cranks on the handle to get a fish in 
Wouln’t be much fun to cast though 
Hey there Scruffy…it’s meeee
Generally a LA is bigger than a traditional. That is one thing that turns some people off is it’s size.
I have a Batenkill LA I, very small diameter, and a CFO 123, both close to the same size outside, but the line starts way into the reel on the CFO where the line starts real close to the outer on the LA I. A lot less backing of course, which means less weight. For a small reel this is real nice, cause the line doesn’t come off curly or as curly.
One thing I did notice at Orvis is people would by the small LA because of it’s size and sacrifice a lot of backing (ex: buy the II for a 5wt which is a 3-5 instead of the III which is a 5-7)
It is a LARGE arbor and that say’s it all.
How about they tell the truth? You want a large, or at least, larger diameter reel and you could care less about the size of the hub (arbor) in the middle. Then again, “Large Arbor” sounds cuter than say, “Bigger O.D.” or “RRR” (really rapid retrieve) or anything which actually gave the facts. Years ago in Rome, there was a fly rod claim of, “Biggus Stickus” but that was all hype even then. Marketing, ya gotta love it. You want a ‘larger arbor’? Get a larger reel! :twisted:
It’s not the size of the arbor or diameter that makes a true LA Reel,you must add spool width. A true LA Reel design has not only has a larger arbor but a wider spool to have adaquit backing capacity, help the line lay in looser coils and speed up retrieve.
Just making the arbor larger adds weight and decreases backing capacity. Add diameter and the line is still in the tight coils. But its a large arbor lets charge $20.00 more!
Just my Opinion
Tom
The large arbors work great for salmon and steelhead. I really wouldn’t want to be stripping line by hand when a 30+ pound king decides to run all over the river. OOOUUUCCCHHH!
Tom no offence, but doesn’t large mean width and height, all around bigger. I might be missing something. A wide arbor is the same height as a traditional, but WIDER, Large Arbors should be LARGE (both ways)
Would someone pls post some specifics so I can compare to the reels in my arsenal? Everyone is just referring to LA but no specifics. I can measure the mid arbor Orvis 6wt reel I have…but nothing to conmpare it to.
Soooooo…what is the diameter of an LA
what is the diameter of the arbor
what is the width of the arbor (ID)
Thanks in advance.
Gemrod