Hi,
I’m about halfway (11 flies) through a beginner’s fly tying kit from Skykomish. It shows how to do two half hitch knots by hand to tie off the fly. A day or two after I tie them the knot unravels in my fly box. I’ve seen some people use glue or finishing tools. What do you recommend?
A tiny dab of head cement ( glue for fly tying ) will secure them .
Eastcoastfly -
Welcome and greetings from SE Idaho.
You will find a lot of helpful folks around this place, so when you have a question on any subject, fire away.
Not sure why your knots are coming undone so readily, but do have an alternative for you to try, which should give you a secure knot without using head cement or glue. I suspect that you do not have enough tension on the thread as you put your final wraps on before you tie the knot, or do not put enough tension on the thread as you are tying it ??
Google “half hitch knot.” Scroll down to the website for “Welcome to the Online Fly Tyer.” That will take you to the site’s illustration of tying a half hitch with a half hitch tool, the end of your bodkin, or similar tool.
Most tyers I’ve watch used two or three half hitches as shown in this illustration. However, there is an alternative which I think creates a better knot. Do the first part of the knot as shown. For the second part, instead of putting the tool in FRONT of the thread as shown, put it BEHIND the thread and wrap the thread in the opposite direction. This creates a knot where the thread binds on itself rather than laying on top of itself.
Another alternative, which I have not personally tried, but is used by one of the best fly tiers I know, is to use only glue. Instead of tying a knot, put a small amount of glue on the tying thread itself right where it meets the hook and far enough down the thread to make several wraps. Then just make a few more wraps with thread and cut it.
Head cement or glue is a good idea to make a more secure, longer lasting knot, but don’t overdo it. And it is not an absolute necessity if you learn to secure the knots properly in the first place.
John
Hi Eastcoastfly,
I still finish a lot of my flies with three or four half-hitches and a little head cement. I can do a whip finish by hand or with a couple tools I purchased for that task but half hitches, WITH A DAB OF HEAD CEMENT, hold just fine. Eventually you may want to learn the whip finish but there is no big rush on that. Have fun! I hope this helps. 8T 
BTW, welcome to the group. Let us hear from you often!
A manual whip finish (if you don’t have a whip finish tool) can help (rough hands and fingers make the manual method much harder) but the added head cement to the final or finishing knot should ensure the knot stays in place. I only use half hitches for securing tied in materials at tie-in points usually only if I need to.
Two finger manual method #1
I typically use a Matarelli Whip Finisher for my finishing knot but will use a Thompson Whip Finisher for smaller flies such as small dry flies where materials may crowd the finishing knot area.
Matarilli tool method
Thompson style whip finisher Beginning Fly Tying, Part 6 - FAOL
I solved my problem by converting to a whip finish, and adding cement to the knot. You should practice it by using a dull, large hook and using thick dark thread. Be sure to have a picture reference so you can master the knot. I hope this helps.
I used the half hitch method for years because I’m left handed and many whip finishers don’t work. I picked up a matarelli whip finisher a few months ago, and I really love it. I’ll never go back. Nice tight knots, and easy to use. It works better than the other styles that I’ve tried.
Eastcoastfly, welcome from another east coaster, about 3,000+ further east. lol
Personally I use a whip finish tool, I have several, I learned to tie a whip finish by hand
but I now always use a tool. I also use head cement (glue/varnish) on the final knot.
The only fly I do not glue is a bead head, I just whip finish behind the bead.
You can obtain head cement dispensers, which are bottles with a thin wire poked
into the bottle of cement. Using one of these or a dubbing needle (bodkin), it is
possible to put a small drop of cement on the head of the fly.
Enjoy yourself.
Anything worth doing is worth doing right, so, several half hitches are no more than one as you have found out all by yourself. You should learn right now how to finish your fly by burying the tag end under several wraps. The whip-finish. It is the correct way. Rather pointless to tie flies only partway.
I had that problem early on in my fly-tying ventures. I hated catching fish on a certain “one-off” fly, and having the darned thing unravel. Its funny, I’d just clip off the loose stuff and keep fishing until I was almost down to a bare hook! Why I add all that other stuff to try to make the fly look like “something” I’ll never know, when apparently just a small odd assortment of material hanging on the hook will catch fish! :rolleyes:
Anyway, these days I always add some Flexament or Sally Hansen’s to the finish knot. Now my flies last much longer than the store-bought ones…and I can usually fish them until I lose the fly to a fish or snag. Well worth the effort to glue the knots! :tieone:
Over the past 4 decades plus of tying a lot of different finisher tools and techniques have crossed my bench. All work fine. I have settled on the Mattereli style for small flies. Big flies I whip finish by hand.
Recently though, I finally got my hands on a Nor-Vise brand whip finisher and it is the nicest tool for the job, by a long distance! The tip of the tool is very slender for much farther than the Mattereli. It is slick and comes off the thread more easily. And there is nothing wrong with the Mattereli, but there are three different finishers of the same style on the table right now and the India-made Sunrise is hugely inferior to the Mattereli… and the Nor-Vise is clearly a lot finer tool than the M…
My computer is having photo downloading issues or I would slap up a picture that would make it all very clear immediately. Still might…
art
Eastcoastfly,
As you can see, the whip finish is the best way to go. Being the old dinosaur that I am, it wasn’t until this year that I started using the whip finishing tool. Up to then I always did it the way I was first taught back when I was 14 years old, three half hitches and head cement. I use fingernail polish for my head cement on freshwater flies (Hard As Nails is good or any clear polish). On my saltwater flies I use an actual head cement, Hard as Hull.
So, learn the whip finish. But when you do use half hitches you can either cement the whole head, and most likely get cement in the eye of the hook, or you can do a little trick that was taught to me a long time ago.
As you are tying your half hitch, use an old bodkin or the brush in the polish and apply a little, not a lot, but a little polish directly onto the thread just before the thread reaches the hook, say the last half inch. If the polish beads up, you have too much and gently wipe the beads off. The polish will soak into the thread and if you do that on each of the two or three half hitches, then they won’t unravel.
That polish applied directly to the thread is also great when you are going to tie off the thread directly behind a bead or cone head.
Glad to see you are getting into fly tying, enjoy it.
Larry 
—sagefisher—
The whip finish is the way to go. I use my fingers for the most part, sometimes a Materelli, and usually a Thompson for parachutes. Each has its appropriate time and place in my opinion.
I think the very best video explaining the hand whip finish is on Eric Austin’s traditionalflies.com.
Once there, click on techniques, then on “Drop The Tool,” and then go to the bottom and click on the hand whip finish video. It will take a few minutes to load, but it’s worth the wait.
Best of luck,
Steven
I think John Scott may be onto something about the tension of your wraps when tying. I tie with the thread just under the breaking strength, the final knots should be the same. Good tight knots, preferably a whip finish, and a fly should last a long time. That is unless the fish mangle it so badly it’s unrecognizable, or it gets snagged high in a tree or deep in the water.
I fing a whip finish with a tool very quick and easy now after many, many practices. It is easier too to control the thread tension and even precise placement with a whip finish. Dab of glue to make sure and this also makes a nice even finish to the head. Even clear nail varnish will do the trick for you.
Half hitch finishes are a little bulky in my view and not terribly secure, as you have found. I still will do a half hitch on some flies like a parachute where it is harder to do a nice even wrap with a tool.
Also, as a beginner you are probably using 6/0 thread which is fairly bulky. If you can downsize to a thinner thread, say 8/0, you will be able to get more wraps without the bulk. It is not too much harder to use and easy to get used to.
Basically just perservere; hang in there, and welcome to FAOL. We’’ always help if we can.
27 years of finishing a fly with 3 half hitches and a little head cement without having come unraveled.
who needs a whip finish and what fly tying commandment states its the ONLY way to finish a fly???
Thank you all for your advice. I’ll refer back to this thread as I progress. Here’s what I’ve tried since.
Tension- I think this was part of the problem with my earlier flies, the later ones still haven’t unraveled.
Knots- I’ve worked on keeping the thread tense as I tie two or three half hitches to finish the fly. I also picked up a whip finisher over the weekend and began practicing.
Glue- So far I’ve borrowed a bottle of clear nail polish from my fiance’ and applied it to a few of my earlier EZ nymphs (FAOL Beginner tying series). I’ll see how that works and maybe later pick up some fly tying glue.
Materials- I picked up some more materials to make some EZ Nymphs and Wooly Buggers (just olive and black chenile and marabou, unsure of what hackle I needed) so we’ll see how they turn out. BTW materials for two flies in two sizes each was surprisingly expensive. I know it works out later, but the initial start up cost is not cheap.
Take care and thanks again
Iv’e said this before and got into trouble, but tying your own flies is not a cheap alternative! Over here the market is flooded with cheap flies from Africa and India, and extremely well tied. Mostly they sell at about $1.50AU which might be say $1.25US. They are tied better than I could do. I got some Klinkammers the other day and they are beautifully woven with segmented silk abdos, just lovely little critters, at a dollar and a half each. In New Zealand last I bought a selection of great little nymphs and dries which were $10NZ per dozen, that is maybe $8US. These too are really neat little flies, beadhead pheasants and similar.
Tie your own for fun and because you love it. Its great to catch a fish on a fly you made yourself from fur and feather, but you will spend hundreds or thousands on gear and materials! It is a sickness that you will love every minute of!
Now a couple of hints if I may be so bold: get the fly head varnish as soon as you can because nail polish goes a bit “gunky” and is hard to apply neatly with the brush. It is OK, but I’m sure that as a beginner you will find a tiny dab of cement on the end of a needle much easier to manage. It dries to a nicer finish too. Also until you get used to doing the whole glue thing, thread your completed flies straight onto a length of wire - this keeps them together and will guarantee you that the eye is not blocked with either glue or a feather stem. It is a pain in the butt discovering this in the middle of a stream.
The correct way to finish a fly is with a whip-finish and head cement. Anything else is incorrect. When you replace a part on your car, don’t you replace ALL the bolts and tighten them correctly? Tying a fly is no different.
There is one exception: When tying some of the more exotic patterns that finish in the middle, or rear of the fly, making it difficult, if not impossible to whip-finish. In this case, you would use a Zap-A-Gap knot. Simply coat the last 3 or 4 inches of line with Zap-A-Gap and wrap. Let it dry completly, then trim the thread, and finish with head cement over the wraps.
i whip finnish the head by hand… cant use a whip finnisher tool to save my life ! follow that with 3 halfhitches… after that i use sallys hard as nails from the fingernail polish area at wallmart, cheaper than head cement… i use just a needlepoint of it on the finnished fly to hold the knots from comming loose… if ya use the hard as nails, dont use the brush in it to put the stuf on the head of your fly… allways use a needle or bodkin…