This starts because the state of PA is thinking about making a certain stream that is already delayed harvest/atificial only,into having baitfishermen use the stream and catch/keep some trout. Anyone familiar with PA rules understand what this entails. For those who don’t: you are allowed to fish these areas all year long but you can keep 3 trout between June 15 to sept 1. You must use flies or artificails–spinners,etc to fish these streams.
Anyway, it is figured out that 98% of the open waters in PA is open to all. Only 2% of the waters in the entire state is either fly fishing only or DHAO. That’s it.
I’ve made the statement that if you want to fish these areas,pick up a fly rod…Well one guy that uses a spinner says he wants to fish the FFO area and don’t think it’s right that he can’t—hey use a fly rod. Besides I say, to me, fishing is about being outside,not catching.
Wll, he didn’t like that comment and says that my statement was “hollow” and that I must be jealous. Now this guy comments that he catches several thousand fish a year. Thats fine with me.
Why call me jealous???
Am I wrong? Is there jealousy in my statment?
Randy
2% verses 98%,no I don’t think you are wrong.If there was only 0.001% fly only water there will always be someone who will complain they can’t fish it.Hey they bought a license too.
If a guy can catch several thousand fish a year, why does he degrudge you a stream that he’s not allowed to use a spinning rod on? He might think you are seek undue privilege but there is no jealousy involved on your part, maybe he is jealous that he has never learned to use a flyrod or tye a fly. Or maybe his command of the English language is lacking and he uses words he is not sure what they mean.
Randy I can’t tell you how many times I have heard guys that don’t fly fishing say this exact same thing. What always blows my mind is the fact that they don’t see that it is simply a law/rule of the sport in certain areas and like they do with other aspect of the outdoors they simply need to follow the rule/law and they can still enjoy the sport. Case in point…look at hunting. Not sure how the hunting laws in PA are, but here in Mi you have “rifle zones” and shotgun/handgun zones…but do these guys that complain about FFO zones ever complain about the firearm zones in hunting and say "Well it’s not fair I want to use my .308 in this zone why can’t I??"… Nope, they view that as the law and they have to follow the law. I don’t get why they don’t understand that it’s the same thing for a small section of certain fishing waters. No one is telling them they can’t fish that area, just that if they do then they have to fish it a certain way.
I don’t think it should be called jealousy… and I don’t know what stream you’re referring to. IMO there absolutely NEEDS to be more FFO/C&R water in this state. The “open” trout waters are pretty much not enjoyable at least early in the season- which is now. Yes I still do a bit of fishing, and the First Day is a tradtion, it’s amusing to watch idiots hooking each other with power bait and falling in the water, and we catch a few fish too. At least here in the midstate, almost every non-special-regulations waters are put and take only, 90% of the fish are gone a few hours after the stock truck leaves, most of the trout wouldn’t survive the summer anyhow, and there are just SO MANY PEOPLE that the FFO/DHALO/C&R waters are the only refuge for someone who wants to fish for trout. Double-edged sword too, like Allenberry on the YB which is a crowded PIA from now through late autumn.
On the open sections of the YB, less than two weeks into the season, every easily accessible place between Carlisle and New Cumberland is trashed. I’m not exaggerating because I was looking at it yesterday. Worm containers, cups, food wrappers, hook packets, trash of every sort all over the place. And it’s far from the only stream which is like that. I caught a couple fish on streamers yesterday afternoon, and honest to God I was thinking “I really don’t enjoy this” because of all the A-holes chucking #5Mepps with a half-ounce sinker, or a wad of powerbait the size of a golf ball, walking all through the stream where they should be fishing, and listening to them bitch that the state doesn’t put in enough fish and licenses are too expensive blah blah blah. Meanwhile, everywhere I waded I kept getting my feet tangled in yards of broken off monofilament. It’s a damn shame because it is truly a beautiful stream. It is significantly worse here in this area, as compared to where I came from up in the Northwest part of Pa (except for Erie of course), just because the population density is so high here.
So I guess the guy who complains about DHALO/FFO water wants it all to be that way.
If I could only catch a few thousand trout and salmon per year I would probably be very upset with myself… And winter fishing is not something I do much of anymore, so I run it all into a few short months…
I think Uncle Jesse hit it. They guy is probably jealous that he’s never learned to fly fish. If he catches all of those fish every year, I’m sure he’s seen plenty of people using a fly rod.
I’m sure to an “outsider” or someone that’s never picked up a fly rod, it sure looks like fun…or at least interesting.
Local river used to be open to all. Closest trout to me and my kids. Now its single barbless, catch and release all year isnstead of the winter. No fishing for my kids who are too small to wade it.
We FF’ers can, at times, be elitist snobs…and FF’ers were the ones who pushed for closure…that 2% can be 100% if it’s your home waters
Thanks guys. Guess I was just stunned that this guy called me out. This guy got upset when I said isn’t fishing all about being outdoors instead of catching? To me it is. Do I like to catch—you betcha. I’ll be intent on catching that trout 40 feet away sucking down spent duns—and if I hook him–or her, I’ll smile.look up at the sky and laugh. Then wonder what others are doing while out enjoying life. I might even light up a cigar…Am I a snob?? Elitest? Or a guy that just loves to fish,spending time with nature. Not answering phones, hearing complaints, delaing with obnoxious people, just the sound of water hitting my waders…and maybe the splash of a trout on my fly of course…
That is a wrap on FF’ers. I have heard it and sometimes I see it. You and your kids are not the only one who got shutout. You have the same solution the people who pushed to close the stream did, talk to the controlling organization, petition your neighbors and friends see if they are also put off by the restrictions. I intend to speak the my local park authority tomorrow about restrictions on watercraft in park lakes.
No sure about the states you guys are in…but here in Michigan fly only waters just mean you have to use a fly, it does not mean you even have to use a fly rod. Many guys will fish a wet/streamer on a spin rod with some split shot. And I’ve seen tons of kids that can’t wade using those plastic casting bobbers that are made to use a fly on a spin rod. So there’s no reason that kids/older people that can’t wade etc etc can’t fish in fly water with a fly.
Trophy waters in both Colorado and Wyoming are quite often “Flies or Artificial Lures Only.” I have seen lots of folks take a spinning rod with a bobber and about 6’ of tippet or whatever mono line with a dry fly on the end and fish the banks with great luck. Kastmasters have a permanent place in my ultralight case and spinning tackle box.
I do not see the restrictions as bad in most cases. Those restrictions keep trophy waters going and the businesses supported by those waters in business. Deckers Colorado would dry up and blow away without the Dream Stream and it’s restrictions.
Not to get off my topic but I will…
Take a look at some of those streams that are FFO or DH areas. I listed some comments before about the amount of money people make using fly rods versus spinning or bait. I didn’t like it but it was a study nonetheless. I know I can twist studies to fit my needs but lets just say it has some merit.
Now I’ll look at some of my local streams. The first 2 weeks after stocking and the bucket brigade following the trucks stocking is about all the traffic you will see from the bait people. Can’t help it but after fishing 50 years, I see it. I was one of them too…Now the fishing dept store close to those streams gets traffic those few weeks,thats it.
Now look at the fly fishing follks. They travel to those streams in the DH or FFO or even to the open streams for everyone and they are the people who spend more money in that store. Don’t really believe that? Go to McConeels in Waterville, or up the road to the Orvis store slate run. Look inside and see the area that pertains to bait/spinner and then the areas that pertain to fly fishermen. Why is it that more square feet of space is dedicated to that particular sport?? Elitiest?? Snobish?? Right!!! This is about money spent. You don’t stock $10 grand on spinners when you sell $200 a year. These people live off of the money they make. If selling minnows makes lots of money—they will stock up heavily in moinnows…They are not mad at money…To stay in business you need to see what the public wants and go in that direction. Call it what you want but it’s smart business sense.
Back to the state of PA.
You will not see an area get hanged into a DH or FFO for quite some time. Still licking their wounds over the Pine creek areas in Lycoming and Tioga counties.
Steve–Look at Maine. Most times you can keep one or two,maybe catch and release,depending on the waters. Maine limits a cull very tightly and they should. They are following resource first. As for flies on mono. Not in most areas there. They will limit the length of the leader and will state you must have fly line on. No lead, no felt in some states,etc.
I carry around a spinning rod all the time, as well as a fly rod. It is VERY true that FF’ers can and DO act like elitist snobs. Very much so. It is laughable to me. HOWEVER— I have never seen an elitist snob FF’er wad up 20 yards of line and chuck it on the stream bank, open up a pack of hooks and throw the wrapper in the stream to float away, throw an empty powerbait bottle into the rocks and smash it just for “FUN”, sit on the stream bank not fishing until the stock truck shows up, or leave plastic bait containers laying on the bank.
I have seen them do other annoying things, but they were always issues of attitude not issues of just being a physical slob.
I’m referring mostly to just “trout fishing” here, and these things I’ve witnessed done by allegedly grown adult humans. (term used loosely)
Randy,
Anyone that knows you knows just how out of line this guys was! What a shame he didn’t take a few moments just to sit and talk toyou about the issue. Would have kept him from looking like an Onager!
This the regulation for the type of stream Randy is talking about:
Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only:
? Open to fishing year-round (no closed
season).
? Fishing hours ? One hour before sunrise
to one hour after sunset.
? Minimum size ? 9 inches, caught on, or in
possession on, the waters under these regulations
from one hour before sunrise on June 15
to one hour after sunset on Labor Day.
? The daily creel limit is three combined species
from one hour before sunrise on June 15
to one hour after sunset on Labor Day, caught
on or in possession on the waters under these
regulations. From the day after Labor Day until
one hour before sunrise on June 15, the daily
creel limit is zero.
? Fishing may be done with artificial lures only
constructed of metal, plastic, rubber or wood, or
with flies and streamers constructed of natural or
synthetic materials. All such lures may be used
with spinning or fly fishing gear.
? The use or possession of any natural bait,
baitfish, fishbait, bait paste and similar substances,
fish eggs (natural or molded) or any other edible,
substance is prohibited.
? Taking baitfish or fishbait is prohibited.
? A current trout/salmon permit is required.
This guy had to be abut as smart as a trout. He is allowed to fish that stream year round with fly or spin gear. My bet is the axe he wanted to grind had more to do with not being allowed to use bait and having to practice C&R.
Everywhere I have lived in this state good fishing opportunists were never more than a mile or two away with many much closer than that. That think about it being the only place I can fish in Pa just does not hold water, pardon the pun.
If you are interested in our trout regulation here they are:
It is a large PDF file so give it time to open