Our local TU has offered a beginning fly tying class for a number of years and we have tried an intermediate class in the past but for whatever reason it was a one time thing. We have decided to try it again and I have been asked to be apart of the discussion on what is the best way to go about the class.
I don’t think of myself as a great tier by any means and am relatively new at this myself, but I also learned long ago that one of the best ways to learn new things for yourself is to teach; it absolutely makes you analyze your own techniques and what you consider fundamentals.
A much more experienced tier will lead the class. He is both articulate and skilled. I have been asked to assist and asked for my input. I wish to tap into the collective experiences here for some guidance. We have some rough parameters so far which include:
Must have your own tools. This will save on logistics and it shows the tiers commitment to the hobby.
Must have two years of tying experience.
What type of requirements might you suggest? We don’t want it too restrictive, but don’t want it so open that people that aren’t serious or can’t put thread on a hook want to sign up.
One of the things that I would like to promote is different techniques that can be applied to many different flies. I wish to teach techniques so that students can applies these to any pattern they want. What types of techniques to you think are appropriate for this class and what patterns would you think would best represent the teaching of your suggestion?
I would like the latter patterns to build on the beginning patterns in somewhat of a logical way.
As in much of life there is no need to recreate the wheel and would really like to avoid any pitfalls that you might have had in either taking such a class in the past or teaching one.
Take a look right here at the Intermeditae tying section, not only for what flies are tied but for what techniques are being used.
I’d leave your requirements right where they are since your starting the class back up. for them to use their own tools and have 2 years tying experience should be enough to judge if you need to change it.
Have lots of fun, I know when I took class’s at my local shop we BS’d and laughed and LEARNED ALOT!!!
Perhaps two years of experience or submit a fly you tied to the instructor to show you are ready. Some people will have tied a lot more in six months than others will in two years. Ask all of the students the first night what they they think they need to learn. The answers may show you some techiques you need to cover early and guide you in what else to teach.
I’ve been tying for only a short time, but I’ve tied alot in that time, and I feel I could handle (and would benefit more from) an intermediate class.
Certainly not saying that I’m good at it by any means, just that within a year’s time, I’m no longer a “beginner” per se: I know how to put the hook in the vise, how to wind thread, whip finish, dub, etc.
Some good pts already to be considered. Thanks for the kick in the head Fatman, Al Campbell’s articles are great and I don’t know how I forgot about them.
Cold and RB chaser, like I said, relatively new myself so I understand your comments that it is more about the individual than about the duration. I know a guy who has been fly fishing for 20 plus years and can’t control his loops worth a darn. The kid I have been working with on the stream just this year throws pretty, pretty loops and can make that line do what he wills it to do. Time in a hobby really doesn’t equate to skill level.
One of the things that we are concerned with is the amount of demand. We don’t want 50 people in the class and very well might have to have a max number. The last beginners class had over 40 people in it and it definately was too many people to teach all effectively. Want some ways to handle the student load or restrict too many students.
What would you guys recomend for student to instructor ratios?
In my experience, this is actually a pretty tough class to put together for two reasons. First, there are inevitably tiers who overestimate their abilities who sign up, no matter what the requirements. This often ends up slowing down the class and can be quite frustrating for the instructor and assistants. I know a lot of tiers who have been tying for a few years who are not much beyond the advanced beginner stage. Heck, I even met a gentleman once who had been tying for 40 years, and yet he could not dub a body to save his life.
Second, while there is a consensus on the basic skill set a beginner must master (e.g. dubbing, thread/material control, proportions, etc.), you will find there is no such agreement on what constitutes the required intermediate skills (nor advanced for that matter). There are plenty of patterns that one could say are “intermediate” in level, but most of these are simply more complex and do not really require a new skill set much beyond what is taught in a decent beginner’s class.
We’ve tried a couple different solutions in our classes, none of which worked particularly well in my opinion. Our latest plan is to approach this class thematically. Each session is an introduction to a style of tying that goes beyond the application of a basic skill set. Spinning deer hair, tying small (<18) patterns, salt/warm-water patterns, are all possibiities. The problem is none of these topics are really fundamental, and most are regional/time dependent and therefore have limited appeal. What these classes are meant to achieve is to get the beginning tiers to tie more, which is really the only key to furthering one’s tying skill.
This is a very long-winded way of say that I do not think there is a good answer to your question. My own thinking is now leaning towards focussing the most on the beginning classes while offerring many opportunities for folks to tie but outside the context of single class. At the intermediate level it is more important in my mind to get people to tie, tie anything, than it is to cover a particular course plan.
I’ve enjoyed the comments so far and can’t disagree with any of them. For me the class will build upon the beginners class and approach some still very basic skill sets that we did not cover in the beginners class like spinning hair, parachutes, upright wings and more complex patterns that have more steps to them than the simple ties of the beginners class.
As I said, the club has tried this in the past and it was a difficult situation.
Maybe a twist on this thread or a diversion, but I would like to see the club invest in an inexpensive camera and projector system for such classes. Open to suggestions here as well. Not looking for a professional camera system.
I have taken my digital still camera and hooked it up to a TV in the video mode and it will show up OK for small classes. Want a step up from that without taking out a huge equipment loan.
With regards to A/V, I think you will find this will GREATLY enhance the learning process. We’ve been using just an off the shelf consumer digital video camera and an LCD projector with fair results. I personally much prefer a CRT or even better a LCD monitor/TV because the image is much crisper and you don’t have have to dim the lights, but it is a bit more ungainly set up. A decent digital camcorder and a 22" LCD should not cost much more than $600 if you shop around. If you can spend more, even better…
2 years of experiance…
You just lost my interest.
What is to say 2 years is the right figure?
I’m tying in advanced stages because I like the challenge of it. If I don’t push myself, nobody else will.
Let’s see… I waded back in the end of May I believe.
Yep, like I said, you lost my interest with your 2 year bit…
Too many rules. Maybe that is why you don’t succeed? :rolleyes:
teaching a tying class aint easy… i teach 2 days a week, beginners to advanced fly tying… It helps if each student has (all alike) provided desk, tying materials, vise, tools and a good lamp… Also when your tying make sure the desks are aranged so you are facing the students and they are facing you… When im demonstrating tying a fly, i have a camera in between me and the fly and a screen on the wall behind me that way the students can see whats being done easily… Once a month they have a test on tying which is usually a list of flies (4) that they tie, a different list for each of them… Also teach different tecniques on how to tie the same fly patern before moving on to the next… To make it more fun for them I take them on a fishing trip at the end of each month unless there is bad weather… The conditions for them to go on one of the fishing trips is that they have to fish flies they tied only…
Rick,
As you said you don’t want to get to restrictive. In the literature about the class I would strongly urge the completion of the beginners class. As for class size say that you are going to limit class size to “X” number of people. If you get alot of interest and the class fills quickly good for you. This will show there is interest in the next step of the process. You could then think about holding a second session that meets on a different night, if you have the time. Or next time you hold the class try and line up two experienced tyers on two differing nights.
For those that had not taken the beginners class simply state that tying samples must be presented. Have your experienced tyer look at the samples at sign-up and determine if the tyer has the skills and techniques needed for intermediate level. Have them bring in what the teacher deems uses the most and most difficult of the beginners techniques. I’m sure alot of tyers on this site have completed Al Campbell’s class in under two years.
As for the camcorder/TV set-up that is a fantastic idea. But let me take it a step further. Make sure the set-up also has recording capabilities. I know you can take a camcorder and plug into a monitor for the class so everyone can see more easily; but, given today’s computer technology you can easily edit and produce a DVD of the class. Which you could have as a study guide for next years intermediate course. Also, you could make available for sale to other memebers.
Now as for you and your skill level: You are in an enviable possition. A) Obviously the teacher thinks you have the skill otherwise s/he wouldn’t have asked you to assit. B) Just think of the one-on-one time you will have with the experienced tyer prior to the class. You’ll do fine!
I think beginning and intermediate tying should be based on the tying techniques. There is a slight difference in difficulty between tying a scud, and a Turks Tarantula;)
An intermediate class should not have to teach the whip-finish, how to palmer hackle, use a hair stacker…etc.
You guys are all coming through with some grand ideas. I knew that I didn’t need to recreate the wheel.
Again, I don’t want to overstate my own abilities, there will be other tiers that are much more advanced than I leading the class, and I will learn by helping out with the program myself.
We are trying to forsee some of the common issues that can be easily worked around before they occur. Thanks for all of your help in making this program better for everyone involved.
Our basic tying class has been an 8 week program that met once a week, we are trying to expand on the very basic skill set that was presented in that program.
may sound odd, but bring a few professionally tied flies and “untie” them wrap by wrap…note how things are applied, the number of wraps and the total length of thread used :-)…much can be gleaned from doing this…