Please don’t anyone take this the wrong way, or run with it the wrong way. Out of curiosity, what is this “other” site that was mentioned in another post VSF or VFS or something like that. Is there a history present that some of us newbies should know of?
Jeff
[url=http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zeromain?id=8:f7f31]http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zeromain?id=8[/url:f7f31]
It’s another Fly Fishing forum…there are members here from both boards (I am one). This board and that one are extremely different with different rules…and that has brought about some “conflicts”. I won’t go into details, I’m sure you will figure it out if you haven’t already.
“If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective.”
[This message has been edited by Spud (edited 25 January 2005).]
As Spud has said! It can be a real brouhaha at times.
If you go over there, you’ll find a number of boards on different topics. The “Main” board is their equivalent of the FAOL board here. The “Off Topic” board is totally unmoderated and is kind of a wild west bar room. So don’t go there unless you can handle that…but do if you can.
Fool,
There is kind of a history that is interesting with VFS (virtual fly shop) and although I can’t do it justice I’ll try some of the basics.
It was started in the early or mid 90’s by a couple Canadians Greg McDermott and Ross Purnell and I think there might have been another but I’m not sure. They developed their own BB software and promoted a fairly interactive website for the fly fishing community. It got big and noticed. It also developed a camaraderie that was unique to the earlier years of such boards. One of the entities that noticed the site was Fly Fisherman Magazine (prinemedia) and they bought them out and moved the operation to Fort Collins CO; believing that they were going to be able to tap into the income generating (subscriptions) of this internet thing. Well that never materialized for them no matter the level of content they pushed. I think mostly because they didn’t understand the content that we all found overwhelmingly valuable was the information and entertainment we shared amongst ourselves. Anyway they shifted the whole web presence around and re-arranged both the software and the personal and a couple incarnations later VFS (which exists only in the minds of those of us older regulars) ended up being farmed out to the Florida Sportsman Site.
VFS doesn’t exist but we use the name to remind ourselves of the camaraderie and innocence of the early years of such forums.
I’m sure I got some details wrong and certainly left out many more, as I wasn’t involved until '96 or so. But I will always remember the VFS that got together and organized two fundraisers for Gary LaFontaine during his last two years of life that brought together people from around the world in a common effort to help one of our own, within a format that hadn’t really been tried before.
I know that there is a history of FAOL as well that is written somewhere and I’m sure someone will link you to it. It too is quite a legacy.
Have fun
Bubba
I think the most interesting thing about the VFS is they were really the 1st really large fly fishing Internet site - and successful at building a community. They were purchased by the Fly Fisherman Magazine which I believe at that time was not yet owned by anyone else…
they did fly swaps, had a great data base on flies, neat stuff. However, once they were owned by someone else, the ‘bean counters’ got into the picture as so often happens, and things which weren’t ‘making money’ were dropped. As I understand it, the BB software became outdated and could not be retrofitted so the BB was moved to the current location.
I’m sure if I have it wrong someone will correct me. The original idea was really
unique! At one point the VFS ‘board’ was going to be by subscription, which is why FAOL is free. I believe they are two years older than FAOL.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
The thing that amazes me is that the people that run that board let people cuss and post pictures that are not that great for children to see. I do not believe that they care one bit about the children that may come on and view the things that get posted on that sight. I know some of the people that post on it sure don’t.
I am on another board that has an area for people to vent on but you have to prove you are 18 and you get a special number that you have to log in to get there. That is as it sould be.
But not on VFS. Dang shame if you ask me. The fellow that seems to run it must not give a hoot either. The funny thing is they give posters a rating? And they ones that are the worst seem to have the highest rating? Ron
I see people complain regularly about what is posted on the net that children may see. When did parents abdicate their responsibility to know what their children are watching, reading, and hearing? I clearly remember my parents saying “you can’t watch that, it’s not appropriate…” and things to the like.
It seems like most people nowadays want other people to “self moderate” so that their kids aren’t corrupted. My thought has always been(I’m a parent myself), you wanted the kids, why don’t you take the responsibility for raising them as you see proper? If the internet is a bad place for them, don’t let them use it without supervision.
Frankly, I like having a place to say what’s on our mind without having to be “politically correct” or worrying about who we may offend. Perhaps more places like that would allow people to get some things of their chests and be more civil to people in real life.
But then again, it’s nice to have FAOL and be able to get good info without all that other stuff…
Charlie
[This message has been edited by chascomly (edited 30 January 2005).]
chascomly, I agree with you in concept, I’m just disappointed it is associated with fly fishing. Or any outdoor sport for that matter. Even for adults. I guess the gentleman sportsman is dead.
Jim
Aww, c’mon…don’t even we “gentleman” need to cut loose from time to time?
Wouldn’t the “gentleman soldiers” of Roman times celebrate a successful battle with a wild bachhanalian feast followed by an orgy? Hmmm, now there’s an idea for the next fishing trip…
In defense of the VFS board, the Off Topic is the only place where any sort of controversial stuff is allowed. Any of that stuff is not allowed on the regional boards. I’m sure if you met those guys on the river, they would be as gentlemanly as you would like them. The OT is a place to vent and joke around, as people will do from time to time. Why not? Any kid can get online and view that, but they can also find much worse stuff just by searching the net. Heck, kids get more profanity at school than they would on that board.
It gets pretty rough from time to time over there, but it always gets settled. They don’t need moderation.
“If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective.”
Somehow the general lack of civility, courtesy and manners in our society is getting worse all the time. Most of television is so bad we just don’t watch it. There is enough violence on the news, I don’t go out seeking other sources to get it. The acceptance that it all is just fine, normal and dandy is in my opinion wrong and leads to a world with no standards, no one responsible for their actions.
For those of you who seem to enjoy the ‘off topic’ board and find it entertaining it certainly is your choice. Just don’t bring it here.
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
chascomly- The problem being that the children that go on there to read about fly fishing can get right into that area. And why shouldn’t people over there have to be able to long into that area? TV can be handled very easy but the net has just to much for most people to handle for there children. When a site is on Fly Fishing that is what most parents expect to be on it. You want to vent be my guest but do it were kids can’t get right at it.
You see I am not giving up on kids being brought up right. Mine are all raised and gone but I do like to see that other kids get a hand when they need it. I just don’t like seeing people giving them a hand in the wrong direction. Which in my opinion VFS is doing when they do not make it so that children can not get on that part of there board. Ron
Hey Spud,
“but they can also find much worse stuff just by searching the net. Heck, kids get more profanity at school than they would on that board.”
Are you saying two wrongs make a right?
I agree with LF. It bears repeating.
"The acceptance that it all is just fine, normal and dandy is in my opinion wrong and leads to a world with no standards, no one responsible for their actions. "
ducksterman: “Are you saying two wrongs make a right?”
No, never said that. 3 do, but that’s a different story.
First of all, profanity really isn’t allowed on the boards…and there really isn’t much on the OT unless somebody gets pretty riled up…and even then it has to be abbreviated or something. What I was trying to say…is that kids learn profanity at school before anywhere else these days, they won’t learn it on a message board…they already know it.
How many little kids that don’t know profanity, or haven’t seen much worse stuff on the web would be viewing an online chat board anyway? Not that I think OT has anything bad at all, sometimes inappropriate, but not bad or “wrong”. So what if it’s not PC.
Why don’t you come on over? You will find that it’s often quite enjoyable. It’s where real people can talk about real things besides fly fishing. The other regional boards are for discussing fly fishing…as well as this site. 
“If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective.”
I see what you are saying Ron. And I agree with LF in that there is definitely a lack of civility and manners in society. I can’t tell you how many times in the past week alone that I have gone out of my way to hold a door for some one and they haven’t said thank you.
But are TV and message boards to blame? Are TV/message boards/the media really where people are learning how to interact with one another? Seems to me this is something that should be learned within the family unit first and foremost. This begs that old art class question, “does art imitate society or does society imitate art?” I think what we have is a sampling of society. Perhaps a “condensed” version, because you are looking at one area out of 20(?) on VFS that allows this type of posting.
There is plenty of “trash” out there as LF says. But, like the message or not, the freedom to express ourselves in the manner we see fit is one of our basic freedoms in our society, much like the right to bear arms(or fishing rods , which I don’t believe is guaranteed in our constitution). Another right we have is the freedom to choose not to look at that stuff. Like LF says…we don’t have to go looking for more examples of uncivility.
From a purely practical side(I run a list-serv with over 4000 members), having an area for members to post OT stuff allows you to keep your other board(s) ON topic much more easily.
Charlie
[This message has been edited by chascomly (edited 31 January 2005).]
chascomly- I am not saying that you can’t or should not have some place to vent on that site or any site. But I do believe that you should have to prove that you are of age to get on that part of the site. That in no way stops people from saying what they wish but it sure stops children from reading it.
You see I do not believe that 10 percent of the people because they want to read things without being bothered by having to log into and area is a good reason for children being able to read what they should not. It is a lame excuse for being to dang lazy in my book.
The problem in this country is that there are no familys anymore. There are two people working to pay the bills so the kids do as they please for the most part. Hard for the parents to parent. So it is easy for kids to get into trouble on the net. So I think that site’s that “CARE” sould take it upon themselves to see that things are done right. Just like FAOL does. Not to hard to do. In fact I do not think there is a real reason that any site that cares about the kids can’t do it. Ron
The problem in this country is that there are no familys anymore. There are two people working to pay the bills so the kids do as they please for the most part.
Excuse me! It’s responding to these blanket asinine descriptions of society that gets me in trouble around here so I’ll leave it at this.
But I take my family life very seriously and don’t need you insulting it.
Have fun
Paul
“The problem in this country is that there are no familys anymore. There are two people working to pay the bills so the kids do as they please for the most part.”
That’s funny…I grew up with a family. Yes, they work to pay the bills…but I have to work so that I can do as I please!
“If firearms cause crimes and kill people, all of the ones I have must be defective.”
[This message has been edited by Spud (edited 31 January 2005).]
Paul, I honestly don’t think Ron, who is twice your age, was insulting you or your family at all. He is a very considerate thoughtful family man…but as a lifelong Montanan he is also aware of the cost to family life today’s lifestyle has. I can’t believe as observant as you are you aren’t aware of it either - the fact that you have been able to keep it from happening in your family doesn’t mean it isn’t out there. Both mom and dad working does mean the kids are growing up with more tv & mtv influence and less mom and dad - can you argue with that?
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL