I don't believe it (Re Bob Boese column)

“The fish had NOT BEEN stressed by fighting for its life on a fishing line.”

I would think there would be no difference between “fighting” to get off the hook and gasping for air while lying on the carpet. Both would be very stressful for the fish.

“Some might have noticed,
its only in the last 20 years or less it is a must to photograph all your fish.
Before that it was rare to take photos and back then there were more and bigger fish available to the average fisher.”

20 years ago, there were no way near as many fisherman as there are today. As the numbers of fisermen grew, there were more and more larger fish being taken and kept. Look at 20 years ago bass fisherman pictures and you will see stringer after stinger of large fish strung up between 2 fisherman or strung up between 2 trees.

There are too many other factors involved which affect the fish population besides how the fisherman handles the fish. I think humans have done more damage to the fish by polluting the water. Too many farmers spraying fertilizer and insecticide and rain water washing it into the streams. Too many golf courses with run off of chemicals and fertilizer reaching our streams and lakes. Too many sewage treatment plants releasing waste water into our streams and lakes. Let’s face it, we as humans, are a greedy and wasteful lot and do not care about taking care of our wildlife, our water and our enviroment. It is a shame. Just too many people more concerned about how to put more in their wallets and add to their egos and trophy walls.

Just my pennies worth and nothing more…

Let’s just all go fishing and try to be more protective of our water, wildlife and fish…If we all just do a little, it will make a difference and others may notice what we are doing and start doing it themselves…

In Washington State it is illegal to remove a wild fish from the water. Not for a picture, not for any reason unless you are harvesting the fish. Again the only reason you can remove a wild fish from the water is if you intend to kill the fish for harvest and you had better make sure it is legal to harvest it.

This subject of C & R and related fish mortality came up a few months ago. I read a bunch of stuff ( doing the googling thing mentioned above ) which, by and large, was interesting and not definitive, kind of like this thread, because it is a pretty complicated subject which varies by species of fish and method of fishing.

The concensus in the various studies I read, as I best recall them, dealt with four major factors in fish mortality. In no particular order of importance -

Hooking depth. Any fish hooked deeper than the tongue / gills area has a much greater chance of dying from being hooked. A fish hooked in the corner of the mouth or on a lip has a very good chance of surviving being hooked.

Fighting stress. The longer is takes to land a fish, the more likely a fish will die because of the stress on its system from the fight. The lighter the tippet and the more fun / time taken to land a fish, the more likely it is doomed. Heavy tippets and quick horsing in reduce the fighting stress and give the fish a better chance of surviving.

Handling stress. Out of the water, squeezed, bounced off the rocks, laid on the beach, jerked around while the hook is removed, being dumped headfirst back into the creek, all contribute, along with other factors, to handling stress. A barbless hook that can be quickly removed while the fish is still in the water reduces handling stress to a minimum. RECOVERY time is another factor in handling stress. It can reduce the effects of other stressful handling issues.

Water temperature. Both before and after landing the fish. Marginal or poor water ( too warm or cold, depending on the species ) conditions / temperatures, even with the best of C & R catch, landing and handling practices, alone might cause a high rate of mortality. The fish are stressed by their environment before they encounter the other stresses imposed on them by fishermen and are less able to recover from the combination of forces they encounter.

As I said above, this is my best recollection of the concensus points of the articles / studies that I read some time ago. I didn’t consider those sources dogma, and I certainly don’t represent the above thoughts as dogma.

My own experience is that wild trout, specifically, and large trout, for sure, are not as wimpy as a lot of folks make them out to be.

For example, I caught the same 17" rainbow three times in four outings to one river over the course of a couple weeks. Can I prove that it was the same trout ? No, but I am certain that it was. Same lie, same take, same fight, same size, same escape route, same everything - and it is the only 17" trout I ever saw in that creek.

Another example from last fall. I caught a 20" cutthroat. I did want a picture of it, for a variety of reasons, including showing it with my fishing report on that outing. Admittedly, that fish, which was lightly hooked in excellent water conditions, endured fighting and handling stresses beyond what I would normally expect. It was handled rather roughly, true be told. But I also took extraordinary measures in reviving it. Ten days later, I was present when another person landed the same fish. Can I prove that it was the same trout ? No, but I am certain that it was. Same lie, same take, same fight, same size, same escape route, same everything, including a very unusual and distintive coloring for a cutthroat - and it is the only 20" trout I ever saw in that creek.

The other side of the coin is that I’ve seen small trout which were lightly hooked in excellent water conditions, landed quickly and released with virtually no stress, go belly up quickly.

Recognizing the major elements that contribute to fish mortality and finding a suitable way to deal with them is a very individual thing. I think most do their best, given the power of information.

John

Hi Warren.
Mate you said it in one go…THANKS.

“Just my pennies worth and nothing more…”
No, they are worth everything in a friendly debate about trying to help fish.

"Let’s just all go fishing and try to be more
protective of our
water,
wildlife
and fish…
If we all just do a little, it will make a difference
and others may notice what we are doing and start doing it themselves"

The above is everything, thanks.

Kindest regards,
UB
Myself, I clean up others rubbish, each and every time I go fishing, AND it DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

AND it takes almost no time to do.
Try it, you might start something nice.

I suspect more photos are taken now because of the advent of digital photography.

It is one thing to talk about survival of a certain species vs survival of another species e.g. catfish vs trout…bass vs…whatever…

It’s been my experience that old pictures of fishermen with their catches involved a guy or couple of guys holding up large stringers of really big dead fish. Now it’s a picture of one fisherman holding a much smaller fish (sometimes with the rod gripped in the teeth pirate style and the fish held at arms length toward the camera to make it appear even bigger) well above the water, usually over a boat or rocks. Should the fish be dropped it lands in the boat or on the rocks, probably being harmed.

The last time this subject came up Ladyfisher demonstrated the proper way to have a photo taken with your fish. The fisher is down on his/her knees (very uncomfortable) in the water. The fish is held submerged in the water until the photo is properly framed and focused. Only then is the fish lifted up so that the belly is still in the water, a quick photo snapped and the fish revived and released. No retakes.

REE

Jeesh, guys. It’s just a fish. I’m certainly not going to jump thorough all those hoops to keep a fish alive. If it dies, it dies.

I find it ironic in the extreme that we are basically ‘torturing’ the fish, playing with it’s life, causing it stress, for our own ‘fun’, then we stress about how we ‘handle’ it after we’ve put it though all that.

If you are all that worried about the fish, don’t put it through all the stress and torture of the fight to begin with.

In any event, I prefer not to photograph trout. I’d rather not touch them. (Don’t care all that much about the fish, I don’t like all that slime and stuff on ME).

But, if I want to take a picture of a trout, I’m going to lay the fish on the boat deck (or the bank, wherever I happen to be), get out the camera, take the picture, put the camera away, then put the fish back in the water.

Don’t know how long that takes. Fish have all swam away and seemed just fine. No evidence that they perished, and I’ve ‘recaught’ some of the fish thus handled.

If it dies, that’s okay too. I’m allowed a certain number on my ‘limit’, and since I no longer keep any to eat, if a couple that I deem worthy of a photo die, then the fish are still ‘ahead’.

I just bought one of those boga style ‘grippers’ so that I won’t have to touch the trout to get the hook out. Don’t know if that’s better for the fish than a net or grabbing it, but it will be more convenient for me, I think.

Buddy

I just love these posts, almost as much as peta does. Isn’t it great that some of us who fish feed peta all this amo about how we torture fish for our fun? Most of the fishermen that I know go out of their way to play the fish quickly and the vast majority of the time, release the fish without touching it. One exception to not touching the fish is for gently holding it in slow current for a few moments until it is ready to go.

As for all fish that have their pictures taken dying in 3 days, that is absolutely not true. There was a nice brown, old scar back, on my home stream back in Pa. This fish had very distinct scars from an Osprey on his back. The first time we caught him he was about 16 inches. Between my buddy and I he was caught ten times that year, and photographed several times. The last ime that I remember catching old scar back he was over 22 inches and very healthy. That was three years latter.

As a guide I tell my fishermen that if we happen to land even a huge fish that if our safety or the ability to land the fish and quickly take a picture is comprimised there will be no picture taken. On some occassions I will go out of my way to make sure that a picture is taken. One of these exceptions is if the fish is the first fish that a kid has ever caught. If getting a shot of an excited kid holding, even squeazing, their first fish helps to plant the seed and get them hooked on fly fishing, then that sacrificed fish is worth it. Of course I go over the proper way to handle a fish, but I will not ruin the moment for the kid with a lecture.

Another time that getting a picture is more valuable than ensuring the fish is not harmed is when I am fishing with someone who is likely not going to be around to fish another season. Last year I had a very terminally ill gentleman in my boat who was in the Reel Recovery program. This guy told me that although he lived his entire life in Montana that he let his life slip away without ever going fly fishing. He was teary eyed from simply being in my drift boat, floating down the Yellowstone. When he landed a couple rainbows you can bet your *** that we got some pictures of him with those fish! His hands may have been dry, but his eyes ( and mine) were not. BTW, you can not see his oxygen bottle in this pic.

Yes, sometimes a picture is worth a fish or two!

I guess you should handle fish gently. I do, even though I usually eat what I catch.

I do C & R sometimes after I’ve got my limit, and I still want to fish.

Bear in mind, I am not talking about trout. I keep a few trout from time-to-time, but most of the time I don’t even remove them from the water, or touch them if I can help it. Trout are not my favorite eating fish. They’re just fun to catch.

I like panfish, black bass (both species), crappie, stripers, catfish, salt-water fish, and carp. I handle them gently, too.

I guess I just don’t understand the whole issue. Realistically, trout are not an endangered, or rare species, at least around here. They are at least as plentiful as bass, and maybe even more. And a lot of those are stockers, which are not going to survive the year anyway. We have native trout as well, and if some of them are not kept, they can over populate, just like bluegills and crappie. Around here, trout do not have any natural fish enemies, because bass and catfish prefer different stretches of river, with different habitats, so trout and these predators seldom meet. There is a lake on the top of my mountain, called Lake Conasauga. It used to have rainbow trout in it. But most people from out-of-town that came here to hike and do ‘Wilderness’ trout fishing (LOL…in their Winnebagos…) did C & R. The trout eventually overpoputated so much that they became stunted, and were a detriment to the other species in the lake. A few years ago, they had to totally drain the lake to remove the trout, and then re-filled and restocked it with bass, bluegills and catfish…no more trout.

I can’t speak for other areas, but around here, keeping a few trout for supper is not going to put a dent in the trout population, as long as you observe the creel limits.

GOt no problem with taking pictures of fish. But do so quickly especially with trout. A bass could live out of water for many, many minutes. A trout, not so long.

They say those “Frankenfish” can live out of water for like …3 DAYS!