… without being able to wade? I know I can fish from my canoe sitting down. However the back is so bad that I cannot use the canoe any more so that is a moot point. Also means I cannot stand up long enough to wade or to do a lot of casting on the move. All of the reflexes in my legs are gone along with the reflexes in my arms being greatly diminished. I absolutely cannot lift any more than 25 pounds and that hurts like heck too.
Recently had a major change for the worse with my back. The disc between the L5 (lumbar) and S1 (small) of back vertebrae has totally collapsed on one side causing the vertebrae to tilt out of position. I can barely lift my feet higher than a few inches, walking is extremely painful, ability to balance is gone. I cannot walk or stand without the aide of a cane or my sturdy walking stick so I believe wading will just be too dangerous. The docs are injecting a silicon type material into the discs in an attempt to keep me working but that too is coming to an end. I am getting to the point where I will have to have the surgery that I cannot afford to have even with insurance but that is another issue.
Since I am now going to be basically a bank fisherman do you think switching over to longer rods, say 8’ and up, is something I should do? I mean I can do some standing to cast but only for a few moments so I must also be able to cast from a chair or perched on top of a 5 gallon bucket with a seat lid on it. Will the longer rods help me cast farther and easier from a sitting position or is that just a myth?
I hate having to give up stream fishing and it looks like my spinning gear will be getting more work. However, I do not want to totally pack in the fly fishing. No way, no how so any advice you all can give will be most appreciated.
I am no longer able to hunt and that is bad enough. Not going to give up on the fly fishing.
Go over to the Tenkara forum and begin researching this style of fly fishing. Forget the Japanese aspect. Fixed line, long rod fly fishing has it’s roots in centuries past in cultures of the Mediterranean, the United Kingdom, among the Seminole Indians in Florida, is still practiced in Italy, and was popular in Appalachia in the 20th century as well as in Japan. It is the oldest form of fly fishing. The rods are 11-13’ long and exceptionally light. Combined with a long-handled landing net, it’s an excellent form of small stream bank fishing for trout and pan fish. It can also be used from small boats and personal watercraft.
Also consider light tackle switch/spey (2-handed) fly fishing. For the bank fisherman…even wheelchair bound anglers…this will give you exceptional range! You can fish big rivers.
Finally, talk to your docs about seeing a pain management specialist. You seem to be at the point now where corrective care options are limited, and it may be time to think about just giving you pain relief for quality of life. You’ll be amazed at what you can do if the pain is just significantly reduced! Trust me…this is a subject I’m personally very familiar with.
Eric. I pretty much have the same problems you have. L4-L5 & L5-S1. My wading days are also gone and I too walk with a cane. Nowdays, I find myself fishing from a jon boat almost exclusively, and only in lakes and ponds. On the rare occasion that I do get a chance to fish a river or stream, I take along a garden kneeler bench. http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2402300
Now, as far as distance and control goes, I’ve never been able to cast as far and with as much control as I did when I borrowed a 7 1/2’, 4 weight, with a WF4F Sharkskin line. I know they’re expensive, and I don’t have a Sharkskin yet, but one day I will. However, if I had my druthers, I’d opt for an 8 1/2 foot, 5 weight just so I could cast some heavier flies and mending would be easier. I sympathize with your condition and wish for you continued fishing.
Synopsis; Longer rod = Easier mending
Sharkskin Line = Longer casts & Better control
I fish from a kayak most of the time, so the majority of my casts are from a low sitting position (much lower than you would be casting sitting in a chair on the bank). First, a 9 foot rod will help but is not necessary. The best thing you can do is perfect a double haul from a sitting position. It isn’t as easy as when you are standing but it doable and will give you better line speed.
The sharkskin lines are being discontinued and can be picked up cheap right now. MRFC.com has them for $39.99.
If you don’t now know how to roll cast, I’d maybe start practicing. Sounds like you may be fishing with little room for a back cast now. I fish with a buddy that can roll cast as far as I can cast “normally”. The guy is awesome with this.
On Monday, I fished with a gentleman who is 81 and has a bad lower back and will soon need another knee replacement. Dean uses a wading stick when he walks on dry ground to steady himself and although he wears hip boots, hes seldom if ever gets in the water. He fishes with a 7’ - 8’ cane rod. He has come to the realization that he cannot walk long distances along the stream and cannot wade like he once did. So we always fishes some familiar water and fishes from the bank and sits and rests when he needs to. I have learned allot from him just observing how he fishes. And yes rare is the day that he gets skunked.
Those are all great ideas! Thanks folks. I am currently in pain management. The shots are the only thing that keep me mobile to even the limited amount I am at right now. I cannot even sleep properly as the pain wakes me up a lot during the nights. It’s flint lock season here in Penn’s Woods but the old spout stuffer hangs upon the wall unused for the season.
I am pretty good at the double haul right now while sitting in the canoe but more practice will help. My roll casting is well not so good but then again we know that in our sport we must practice continually. Tenkara I don’t really have the funds to get into right now. When they do my surgery I am looking at going on disability without any insurance so I need all the money I can save right now. Federal Government may put me out on disability retirement at 80% of my gross income right now. I just turned 47 on December 9th. heck of a note to be this side of fifty and they want to put you out to pasture already. I am in so much pain i may just take them up on it.
Back to fly fishing. I think this is doable. It is going to take a bit of improvisation, study and practice but then that’s always been an element of our sport that I enjoy. I like that little bench Joe. Would come in real handy doing my gardening too. Perhaps I can use what is happening to me to help other anglers along the way too. I will have to keep good records, fire up the video and still cameras, perhaps enlist the help of the better half too. I can still ty flies too. I am a member of the local sportsman’s club and I may talk to the president of the club about setting up tying sessions for all of our members.
Bottom line is I don’t want to give up on fly fishing! I love the sport and the people too much to leave it out of my life. That is why giving up the ability to wade is so tough because it is such an integral part of your sport.
Thanks for the advice and for letting me ramble on a bit. I feel better already.
I know it’s hard to tell from this picture, but here’s proof it works.
And I practice raised bed gardening, so the bench works well there too. Or you can turn the bench upside down and kneel on it. I like the bench so much, I bought another one for my wife. We both swear by them as making gardening possible.
Wait just a minute. You asked about getting a longer rod. You can buy a good Tenkara rod for $60-100, and a line is less than $20. I fail to see how that would ruled out based on price when you started this thread based on a question about buying a 9’6" or 10’ fly rod, all of which start at more than $200. I’m not trying to talk you into Tenkara. It’s no skin off my nose. But that response made no sense.
I didn’t go into a lot of detail and you may not know who I am, but I am a Certified Adaptive Fly Fishing Practitioner and President of the Adaptive Fly Fishing Institute, Inc. I also am totally disabled with Mult Concussion Syndrome (mTBI), Bilateral Cervical Radiculopathy, Degenerative Disk Disease of the Spine, and am 3 weeks out of knee surgery for Osteomyelitis. That’s what I meant when I said I’m familiar with what you’re going through.
You’ve gotten a few good suggestions here from some other guys about things to try. Forget about the make/model fly line and different rods stuff for casting further. None of that makes a hill of beans difference. A longer rod will help you mend better, and different line types and tapers will mend differently. But none of that is going to make more than 5-10’ difference in casting distance at the max unless you get into special purpose equipment. You casting technique is about 95% of what determines your casting distance. FYI, a perfect double haul added to a perfect casting stroke will only add a few feet of distance, too. This is another common misconception about the function of the haul in the cast. The poster who mentioned it got it right: it adds line speed. You’ll need that from a seated position, and getting it by sharing the load between both hands is usually better than generating it all with one hand. But it isn’t going to be a solution to the distance you lose by being confined to the bank. Tip: work on timing of a short haul vs. power in a longer haul. You’ll get more mileage out of it from a seated casting posture.
To increase distance, you need to be thinking about things like: much longer rods and fixed lines for fishing small streams, spey for rivers and lakes, and integrated shooting head lines.
For things to aid you in relaxing your back waterside, there is a wide array of assistive devices to choose from. If you go on disability, some of this stuff will qualify as medical expenses for tax deduction purposes. There are even grants you may be able to apply for to pay for some things. If you become officially and permanently disabled, feel free to contact AFFI for assistance with finding resources along those lines.
Eric, if you don’t already have one get yourself either a double taper or “easy mend” fly line. I can roll cast using a weight forward line but find it so much easier with a double taper.
And from one veteran to another, I know you’ll do just fine. Heck you’ve been through allot worse experience than what you are going through now.
flyguy66,
I own a variety of rods from 5’ up to 9’ in length. That is why I mentioned switching to the longer rods, not buying as I already own them. I have 5,6,7, and 8 weight lines in WF-F, an 8 weight intermediate sink tip and both 6 and 8 wt DT-F. I am one of these guys that preferred the short to medium length rods say the 5 foot rod up to and including my 7’6" 7wt glass. I may be able at tax time to pick up something off of ebay in the tenkara area but it wont be anything expensive for sure. The shorter rods worked better on the brush choked native brook trout streams in our county but my wading days are gone. I do not trust my sense of balance enough to wade.
You know what kind of pain I am in. I have bilateral facet disease, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, degenerative disc disease, epidural lipomatosis, multiple dessicated and collapsed discs along with two herniated discs. L4-L5 disc is partially collapsed while L5-S1 disc has totally collapsed resulting in the shifting of the vertebrae, stenosis, pinched nerves and bone on bone. Also have the same things going on in the thoracic region. I ain’t complaining though just saying if you know what I mean. I am thankful just to be alive every day. Thankful to folks like you for helping me too. My dad just turned 80 on the 23rd. His favorite saying is “We’re in pretty good shape, for the shape we’re in”.
Dave,
I have just the setup. A 9 foot, 2pc, 6wt medium-fast mid flex graphite rod with a DT-6-F Cortland Sylk on it. I also have a 9’ glass that is a bit slower, 7wt that I would will to try my DT-8-F on just for chuckles. Anyone that has ever seen me cast is going to chuckle at the very least.
Sounds like you have a good set up, although I am not familiar with Sylk fly line. I thought that line was for bamboo and glass rods. But if it works, it works!
Nighthawk,
I’m wondering if tenkara fishing wouldn’t be a good option for you. I watched a video posted on the TenkaraUSA blog that showed an expert tenkara fisherman casting. He used much less arm movement that is necessary with a conventional fly rod. Would that help?
Back to your original question. You don’t need to stand to cast. How many of us cast in tubes and toons, without a problem? If your normal casting style is full-body movement, it may present a problem, but many people, myself included, keep the cast out in our arms most of the time. Just takes practice.
Yep. I understand your medical condition very well. Your detailed diagnosis and mine aren’t that different, but yours is more severe. The nerve impingement and chronic pain, loss of control and sensitivity we deal with is probably about the same in the arms/neck. And I have a facets problem at the bottom of my lumbar spine from a motorcycle accident a couple of years ago.
Now I understand your questions a lot better. I will still say that I think you will find the Tenkara option very enjoyable for small streams when/if you can come up with about $100 to get in to it. It takes a different mental approach to use a 10-13’ rod on brushy small streams than what you’re used to, but it works great. Using what you’ve got on hand, let me give you a few tips about how to get the most of what you’ve got:
The roll casting tips you’ve gotten here are good advice. Take those DT lines and pair them up to your longest rods, over-lining if necessary. Try not to under-line them, as that will force you to work harder to get the same load on the rod. Over-line too much, and a rod will “collapse” or “break down” under load. That means it just loses its parabolic curvature and no longer distributes the energy smoothly along the rod blank. This will cause a serious loss in energy transfer, increased vibration, etc. You’ll feel it. Learn to be a master of the roll cast and even single-handed spey casting. You will be nothing short of amazed at what you can do without ever picking up a back cast!
Remember: it is all technique and none of it is about power. A 4’ tall, 65 lb 100 year old lady could cast a fly 100’ if she wanted to. So resolve to do nothing that isn’t from a totally relaxed position that is easy and smooth to execute. The key word is smoooooth.
I assume from what has been said in this thread that you are a disabled vet. ??? If this is true, AFFI could assist you in getting assistive and adaptive sports equipment from the VA at no cost to you. Just like anything with the VA, this process takes time, there are a few steps, and there is paperwork. But there are some pretty incredible pieces of equipment out there…they’re just expensive.
You know the more I think about it the more it appeals to me. I will check it out. Thanks.
Yeah I do too in my canoe but should I go with longer rods? That is the only time I use them because most of my fishing is wading done on small brushy streams or small still waters where I can use my shorter rods. I am pretty much resigned to giving up on wading because I cannot stand for any amount of time past a few minutes and I do not trust my balance.
My casting style is more upper body that anything. I used to stand feet shoulder width apart, left foot slightly forward of the right. Kind of like a shooting stance. Elbow tucked enough to hold the family bible against the side of my chest.
Between the pain, the pain meds and the lack of sleep I don’t know if I am articulating this in a sensible manner. What is boils down to is since I am mainly going to pass from a seated position should I use the longer rods? I think I should. Thanks.
I am sitting here this morning. I should be at work as I have no leave left but I cannot even walk much past the car out in the driveway. I don’t know what I am supposed to do but I do not want to give up on our sport. I cannot hunt anymore, no more hikes. Just a few miles from the the Appalachian Trail runs across the southeast corner of our county. I would love to be able to walk it again but that won’s happen in the near future.
Good point about casting being technique. My mom is all of 5’ tall but you should see her cast a fly. She is in her 70’s and suffering from macular degeneration. Her sight is all but gone as are her days of hunting and fishing. Wish I was near a fluid with the rod or rifle as she is. When I was a kid I used to think it was funny that mom never came home with an empty creel or game bag where as sometimes the men would.
My infirmities are not service related. Well at least they were not service caused thought I suppose the case could be made that the Army accepted me with a known diseases even back then. Even back then my arthritis showed up during a routine X-ray for an injury. I had to sign a waver just so I could finish my tour as an Aviator. I don’t know if the VA can help but they have more deserving vets than me on the waiting list right now.
If you served, you deserve. You spent years of your life serving this country. Now it’s time for this country to serve you. You earned it, it’s your right, you deserve it. If the VA balks, call your congressman. Your loyalty to this country and your love for your fellow veterans means too much for me to be polite. Yes, the VA is busy. Yes, today’s vets are deserving. But, you were first in line. NEVER GIVE UP.
You would be amazed what would happen if you went to get in that line you mentioned. Those new vets…some missing limbs and some in wheelchairs…would make sure you got in line in front of them if they knew you were a “new guy” or a Vietnam-era vet, etc. They’re very good about looking out for each other and have an immense respect for “old warriors.” By and large they are an amazing bunch of young men and women. And they’d be the first to tell you to get to the VA…and they don’t mind the extra wait. So much for that idea.
You should also know that service-connectedness is no longer defined as “caused by service in the armed forces,” but as “caused or aggravated by…” This change came several years ago and is retroactive. Another thing you should know is that your type of conditions are among the most common injuries young troops…troops in their 20s…are being medically discharged for today. Riding in mine-resistant vehicles and living in 100 lbs of body armor and combat gear most of their lives for the past 10 years has crippled an entire generation of our Army and Marine Corps. Unbelievable numbers of them have degenerative disk disease and osteoarthritis of the spine, neck, and knees…while still in their 20s! So the understanding of what causes and aggravates (triggers early onset) these orthopedic disabilities at the VA has advanced by light years in the past decade. So has their ability to treat them. On the other hand, they’re still the VA. It’s still all about exhausting their impulse to deny things and say no to stuff and make excuses for not doing what they’re supposed to do before it works the way it is supposed to work. It is still all about them trying to figure out how to get you to go away and you making them realize that you aren’t going away until they do the right thing. It’s one of the worst bureaucracies in the whole federal government. But it beats having no healthcare and no benefits by a LONG shot! And sitting in the waiting room with some other vets I have actually met some pretty good fishing buddies.
