I’ve noticed some patterns I’ve been looking at call for Ostrich herl, which I’ve never worked with, but I’ve have used Peacock herl for quiet a bit. Is there a big difference between them, one better then the other ??
Mike
I’ve noticed some patterns I’ve been looking at call for Ostrich herl, which I’ve never worked with, but I’ve have used Peacock herl for quiet a bit. Is there a big difference between them, one better then the other ??
Mike
Mickalo,
the Ostrich herl is very similar to the peacock herl only slightly larger. It’s very easy to work with and readily available. Comes in a variety of colors as well.
It is different and probably not interchangable. I use ostrich herl in place of hackle when I tie micro-buggers. It is not glossy. The fibers are longer, softer, and have more movement. The best thing to do is to look at some. Order some, if you can’t get it locally. After all, what’s the worst that can happen? Just another sub-addiction to the fly-tying addiction that many of us already know so well.
Ed
(Ed note: It reminds me of a cross between peacock herl and maribou.)
P.S. Just google “ostrich herl”.
found a good deal on Ostrich herl on ebay, 5 assorted color herls, for $10. Gonna order some and try it out tying that Strymph by Skip Morris. Looks like a nice warm water fly, similar to a red woobler
Mike
I have some emu herl. Is there much difference between the ostrich and emu herls?
Yes there is a big difference, and they are not interchangeable. Also, not all peacock herl is the same, although it looks similar.
Ostrich herl, which is taken from an ostrich plume,was once used extensively by milliners and other trades for extravagant Victorian hats, among other things, and was fairly widely available as a result of this. Although I doubt that people in the Dales, or many other remote areas would have used it. As far as I am aware, it is only used on a few spiders patterns, and then only in dyed black. It is sold either in ?quill? pieces, or as loose herl. The quill pieces are better of course. The quality can vary enormously with regard to the abundance, texture, and length of the flue .Here is a piece of red dyed quill, and a packet of ?loose? black herl. I did not want to take the loose herl out of the packet, so the photo of the black herl is not very good! It is not very robust, and one would probably be better advised to use dubbed fur as a substitute. Short soft black fur, like dyed black mole, either touch dubbed, or in split thread for instance using dyed black Arctic fox underfur or similar, would be ideal for this, or any other appropriate fur.
There are a number of feathers from a peacock which may be used for various things, but for soft hackles, mainly the herl ( or ?Hurl? in some older books), from the eye feathers is used. This comes naturally in metallic green, and bronze. There is some controversy about how this comes about. It seems to depend to some extent on the particular strain of bird, and other factors.I have some herl which faded from bright green, to bronze, in sunlight, but this does not always happen.Quite a few other dressers have tried this, and it only worked for some of them!
The herl is also stripped of its flue, and used as blank quill in a number of flies. For well marked quill, it must be taken from near the ?eye?, and this should also be one of the central quills from the tail. ?Quill? is not the correct term, but everybody uses it. Many dressers have also dyed this in various colours. Magenta herl was once popular for various flies, and also the stripped quills were also dyed various colours. If you want to do this, then stroking it with the appropriate marker is a good idea! The quill does not make very robust bodies. It looks very attractive, and is used on many flies, but I generally prefer dubbed bodies on my wet flies.When you buy this, buy the quills! The loose herl in packets is difficult to work with, and you get a lot of wastage, apart from possibly not getting what you want anyway.
The herl from the secondaries was used as bodies or ?dubbing? on a few flies. Substitute cock pheasant centre tail
The ?sword? feathers are used for a couple of patterns, notably the Alexandra. These feathers come in ?left? and ?right? related to their locations on the bird! This should be borne in mind when attempting to make ?paired? wings, as otherwise the curves will be all wrong! These fibres can be tricky to manipulate!
The peacock from which most herl, and “eye” feathers are taken is the Indian peafowl;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Peafowl
But there are a number of types, and the herl differs a lot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacock
All these herls were used on a lot of old flies, as the feathers were imported in huge amounts for the millinery trade among other things, and were thus easily available.
TL
MC
Ostrich herl can be used in mini buggers in place of chenille. It is also used in a fly called the G-Bug. This fly is similar to a scud but uses ostrich in place of dubbing for the body. The G-bug is a good fly in ozark streams.
Dave
Some nice ostrich herl here;
http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0043415319788a.shtml
http://www.flyshop.co.nz/page/F/PROD/tfeathers/ost
http://www.magicmakers.com/retail/feathers/Feathers.html
http://www.ostrich.com/shop/cat?cmd=stdsearch:feather,ostrich,drab-nat
Here is an interesting article form the New York Times, September 1882;
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9E01E2D71E3EE433A25757C2A96F9C94639FD7CF
Some other relevant stuff;
http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Dictionary-of-Dry-Goods/Ostrich-Feathers.html
TL
MC
Hi Mike,
Ostrich and peacock do have some similarities, but are are also very different and can not be substituted for each other.
Ostrich is like peacock, in that you have individual stems coming off the main quill of the feather. These are small stems have individual barbules coming off them just like those of peacock.
The barbules are not metallic, like you those on peacock. The native feathers are primarily black, white, or gray (as well as a few other mixed colors such as tans/grays, etc.) The white feathers are then dyed many colors, and many colors are available.
The barbules on the ostrich are somewhat softer than dry fly hackle. In a way they are a little like a saddle hackle from Metz or Whiting that is in a small size. Typically, those herls that I have measured run from a little over 1/16th inch wide to over 3/16 inch wide, or so.
The herls have many uses.
They are used in body materials, forming a body somewhat like a very small diameter bihackle. Examples of this kind of body include: 1. the body on the “Materials Streamer Nymph” (Rick’s Favorite Bluegill’s Flies, Part one, see the archive of the “Panfish” features on this site), and 2. the black herl midge.
They are used for nymph collars as in the “casual dress” or the “muskrat” nymphs, the TDC midge, and many others.
It is used in tailing streamers as in the “Murray Marauder”, which has good movement.
It can be used, if you are short of small hackle, for hackling small dry flies. Although I haven’t had great sucess in my few efforts in this regard, I know that others have had success with it.
It is used for small neat decorative collars on salmon flies.
Finally it can be used for ribbing, as in some versions of the hellgramite. In that case it represents gills, and it could also very well be used to represent gills in other nymphs as well by plamering it as ribbing. In those cases, the fly tier may want to trim the palmered hackle top and bottom.
There are probably many other uses as well, but those are the ones I think of off the top of my head.
Regards,
Gandolf
WELL DONE, AS ALWAYS MIKE
if you want good herl the best is arguably NATURES SPIRIT , available from one of our sponsers HOOK and HACKLE it is beautiful , clean and green. Another source is Blue Ribbon Flies, the have it and peacok eyes also. I am not sure if Mike included the trick to getting the herl to turn bronze if you want it that color. get a ziplock bag wide enought to evenly distribute the number of herls you want to bronze. leave them on your cars dashboard and flip the bag over to the other side after leaving it in the sun for an equal amount of days. sunlight will do the work for you. Also Blue Ribbon has some awesome ostrich hearl. best wishes ,heinrich
This will not work with all peacock herl. It depends on the species of bird, and how much interbreeding etc etc. The “colour” of these herls is not primarily due to pigment, so the pigment can not “fade” as such, but to optical interference caused by nanostructures. SOME green herl may turn bronze after a while, but other herl will not. Also, light (especially strong sunlight) damages the herl quickly and quite thoroughly, making it brittle, and causing the nanostructures to break down. So I don’t recommend doing this.
Although I did do this myself for a while before I learned why I shouldn’t !
TL
MC
That’s interesting Mike. I too had heard that you could get the herl to turn bronze by placing it in the sun but it never seemed to work for me.
I may try it again with some herl recently obtained from a friend who actually has several peacocks loose on his farm.
Dave
It depends on the species mainly. Most peacocks outside their original indigenous areas are the results of considerable breeding experiments.
I have had some green herl that turned a nice bronze after a day or so on the window sill in bright sunlight, and I have some that didn’t change at all.
At one time many dressers dyed the herl magenta, which also gives a bronze effect.
All herl (and other feathers) will however be damaged by bright light.
Extract from this URL;
Complete article;
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/pdfs/cnsv-feathers.pdf
QUOTE
An obvious cause of damage is color fading from exposure to light. Although less obvious, light may also cause other types of damage. As the energy contained in light strikes your feathers, it will begin to break molecular bonds. The breaking of these bonds results in color fading or change, yellowing, and embrittlement of the feathers. If exposed to direct, intense light, damage occurs very quickly and is immediately obvious. Just as dangerous is exposure to moderate light levels over extended periods of time. Light damage is cumulative, and will slowly build up over the years. Although your feather cape may have been hanging in a dim corner of the living room, over the years the daily exposure to low light levels will add to its gradual deterioration. Usually the first indication of damage is a littering of small pieces of broken feather barbs in the bottom of the case or box. By then, it is too late to salvage or repair the feather
UNQUOTE
But as herl has very fine delicate barbules, it is particularly susceptible to such damage. I bombarded some herl with high intensity Ultra Violet light( Unshielded mercury vapour lamp), and the herl fell apart after a few minutes.
Most brittle herl is the result of light damage ( never buy feathers displayed in shop windows!). But age also plays a part. Some of the lipids evaporate over time leaving the keratin structure brittle. Feathers should also be stored in a cool place ( the Freezer is best of all!), as this slows down the evaportaion of lipids etc, and prevents the feathers becoming brittle.
To soften brittle herls before use, place in warm soapy water for a couple of minutes, rinse thoroughly and allow to dry naturally,or you may carefully blow them dry with a hair dryer ( this fluffs them up nicely as well). They will also fluff up when waved around dry, and the warm water softens the quill a lot, which makes it a lot easier to use without breaking or splitting.
To store stripped quills, the best way is to dip them in liquid wax, ( warm candle way, or beeswax in a tin cup or similar in a pan of boiling water) and shake off the excess. ( Also works well for stripping flue, just dip the herl in liquid wax, allow the wax to set, and the flue comes off completely when you run your nail along it). This will keep the quill in perfect condition for years, as the wax seals the quill pores and ensures the quill stays flexible.
TL
MC
And as a butt on full dress salmon flies
Indeed, it is used on quite a few things, but the quote I used was from an article on spiders.
TL
MC
some great info MC, thanks. I found a couple of patterns here on FAOL archives that I want to tie that calls for ostrich herl, so gonna give it a try.
Mike